titud : no k bos do konca razresu ves materialn telo in um (psiho) ti bo to indirektno posvetil na spoznanje spirita (duse).

vecina ljudi zamenjuje "duhovnost", um ali psiho za spirit. res da je um visje narave in bolj subtilne narave kot telo, ampak dusa je nad obema, oz. iz ciz druzga materiala. telo in um sta oba materialna, en bl grob, drug bolj subtilen, ampak se zmeri sta materialna.
en odlomk iz Bhagavad-gite:

7:4 "Earth, water, fire, ether, mind, intellect, and egoism -- this material nature of mine is so divided eightfold."

Here Krishna describes the makeup of all matter in brief. In the next verse he will refer back to this sakti, describing it as his inferior nature or secondary power. Inside each of the elements mentioned are their subtle origins.

Earth, water, fire, air, and ether are the five gross elements known as maha-bhuta. Included within these five are sixteen transformations: the five knowledge-acquiring senses: nose, tongue, eyes, tactile sense, and ears; the five working senses: hands, legs, the organ of speech, the creative organ, and the organ of evacuation; the eleventh internal sense: the mind; and the five sense objects: manifestations of smell, taste, sight, touch, and sound.

Mind, intelligence, and egoism are the three subtle elements mentioned in this verse. Mind here does not indicate the eleventh sense, which is included in the maha-bhutas. Here mind refers to pradhana, the unmanifest stage of the three modes of material nature. From pradhana the mahat tattva, or great intellect, manifests. Mahat tattva in turn gives rise to ahankara, or egoism, the principle of material identification, which in turn is the subtle cause of the sense objects and mind/senses. After the sense objects manifest, the necessity for the senses to manifest arises.

Thus in the form of a sutra Krishna has described his secondary power that makes up material nature and its divisions. He has also indicated that the material nature itself is divided or separated from himself (bhinna prakatir). This is the explanation of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

Separated means that it acts as if independent of God once God sets it in motion, much like a tape recording acts independently of the person whose words it has recorded, while being wholly dependent upon him at the same time.

The world as we experience it, however, is not merely matter. Thus Krishna next describes his jiva sakti, which is of the nature of consciousness.

7:5 "Such is my secondary (insentient) nature. However, you should know it to be (categorically) different from my superior (intermediate) nature consisting of souls, O mighty armed, by which this universe is sustained."

Material nature is inferior to consciousness. It is that which is experienced, as opposed to that which experiences. Matter is insentient, while consciousness is life itself.

The jiva sakti consisting of individual souls, is God's intermediate power.

It is similar in nature to God and dissimilar to matter. It is at the same time dissimilar to God in that it is prone to being deluded by the influence of material nature. How can the jiva sakti be deluded by material nature if it is superior to matter? Such is the power of illusion. Even while souls, units of consciousness, sustain the material world by their presence, in association with matter they think their existence is dependent on material conditions.

Krishna has described his intermediate power here as jivabhuta. In using the singular, he refers to the entire class of individual souls. The source of both the individual souls and matter is Krishna himself, as he affirms in the next verse.

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Aryan, sam nikogar in ničesar ne predstavljam.

Jaz predvsem malo  bluzim oz. z drugimi besedami sem.

Za hobi pa včasih ščegetam demone po podplatih. Če se mi pa ti ne pustijo, pa koga drugega in kod drugod.

lp bp

titud wrote on 30.12.2002 at 13:02:40:

zelo natancno spet. svaka cast. zihr ti bo zanimiv tole spodi, ki je v bistvu razsirjena tvoja ideja v praksi. prosim vzem si cas.

THE FORGETFULNESS OF THE HUMANISTS
by
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura

(An article originally published in The Harmonist on Sept 19th, 1934 - Vol XXI No.2)

The Fountainhead of all eternal and temporal manifestations is confined in Sri Krishna alone. The non-absolute phases are emanations from a particular potency whose analytical distributions are known as gunas or qualities. In the factor of time, they are branched as past, present and future and their material representations have three characteristics viz. evolution, sustenance and dissolution. The Fountainhead is Absolute and His borderland emanations are absolute infinitesimals, though they are recognised in the same qualities. Their quantitative reference is then considered as apart from the Absolute, but swayed by a quality and their special characteristic is that the infinitesimal bearing should not be confused with the Infinitude.

The resources of manifestive nature have their common origin in the absolute existence of the Fountainhead. The delegation of the power of the Absolute Infinity is traced in the spirit and the matter. The family of qualitative temporal representations possesses numerous isolated entities and so the absolute infinitesimals are grouped together in magnatudinal difference form the Fountainhead.

The present human figure or the figure of a member of the Zoo or of one of the family of the phytographic species has got a restrictive and depending position and it is liable to change in the shape of growth and deterioration. The internal nature of the absolute-infinitesimals is spirit and takes the initiative; whereas, the difference of quality cannot show the power of taking initiative, similar to that of living entities.

The two potencies possessed by the Fountainhead are known as spiritual and material. The frame of the living should never be confused with the life itself. so there is a broad distinction of aspects between the two families of spirit and matter. The predominating phase is exercised in the material atmosphere which is liable to be controlled by animation. The animal world differs from materialistic structure, though it is endowed with a material association in its outward appearance.

We may often distinguish between a living body and a dead one. The generative advent has a smaller beginning to undergo development and growth and the elimination of the life principle from the structure itself has got different denominations.

In the Semitic thought we do not find any metensomatosistic speculation; so they are prone to consider the spirit as a composition of chanced incident, and this material combination as the starting point of the souls. So these thoughts are opposed to the theory inculcated by the conception of seelanwanderung or metempsychosis. The spiritistic view is quite different from the idea of material congregation which is wrongly considered as the composition of the eternal soul. On the other hand, the non-Semitic thoughts make a departure from the Semitic ideas of non-transmigrating accidental composition.

The explanation of the different methods of the two bearings - the tabernacle and the inner temporal animating entity - can lead us to a differing element in the transcendental entity beyond our sensuous conception when we bring into consideration the true eternal position of the absolute infinitesimals, by following the analogy of wrapping the entity by two kinds of garments covering the same as incorporations. The covers, though foreign, are amalgamated to create a confusion of their natural isolated position.

Portions of matter, in the factor of time, are liable to change. But the substratum - the spirit - is not obliged to undergo transformation like the foreign parts attached to the same by conventional practices. The very theory is explained in other words by the encountering attitude of a different potentia of the Fountainhead to effect the conversions by means of temporary decorations. The exercising function of the spirit is more or less impeded by the counteracting agency of a different potency of the Absolute. So the susceptibility of being attacked is an inevitable element in the spirit infinitesimal which is different from the spiritual Infinite.

Conversion in or mixing with the temporary material dust should not and cannot disable or disfigure the Spirit Infinity, as the value of spirits infinitesimals should not and could not be identical with the Fountainhead and His emanation, just like a particular pencil of ray should not be misconceived as the glowing disc from which the rays come. The Absolute Fountainhead of spirit should not be considered to slumber like absolute infinitesimals who are subject to the other potentia of the Absolute.

The nature of the spirits of borderland potency of the Fountainhead need not be affirmed with the objective knowledge of the mixed up conception. The nature of the Absolute Infinite should not be standardised in the same line as His infinitesimals. The spirits are observed in two different stages; whereas the eternal Fountainhead of all spirits has no bifurcation. The Absolute Infinite cannot be expected to be accommodated in the finite reference of phenomena which have limiting merits.

The Fountainhead alone has the reservation of Ubiquity; whereas all ubiquitous aspects are wanting in infinitesimals. So isolation and association of infinitesimals with the Infinite should not be recognised as two different entities. Pleasure and pain are of the same temporary stay and they are counted differently in their gradatory condition.

The eternal and temporal potencies have got their two realms, and on the border of the two, the border-land potentia can easily be traced. The members of the border-land potency can claim one of the two potencies at a time which are double-winged places of their habitation. The mundane phenomena have got a temporal situation; whereas, the eternal manifestations of the Transcendence are not subject to the atmosphere of inadequacy, limit and imperfection of phenomena.

The border-land potency can be traced to exhibit her neutral position which is normal and does not espouse at that time the cause of temporal or eternal manifestation of the Fountainhead. The members of this potency are apt to be forgetful of their eternal situation, when they have stronger affinity to live in this temporal region as lords and by their inherent free-will want not to submit to their eternal functions of the transcendence.

The forgetful demeanor posed by a member of the border-land potency cannot welcome the guidance of the eternal blissful wisdom of a devotee. The misguiding and tempting objects of phenomena often dictate the necessity, in the heart of a weak, cringing forgetful spirit, of his wonted participation in the enjoyment of this material sphere.

The eternal acquisition of the members of the border-land potency cannot be dissociated from their persons. The impersonalist has got a non-differentiative impression of all spirits into one. If an erroneous argument is offered by a silly person of his having been endowed with the susceptibilities of forgetfulness of his eternal function, and therefore, because the Fountainhead is to be blamed for delegating to him inadequate power, he should not have been held responsible for the incomplete investiture on him alone with complete freedom, then this polemic character of the Semitic school can easily be met by an acquaintance of prepossession of spiritual independent element inherent in the border-land potency to entangle themselves in undesirable situation. Free will of an absolute infinitesimal cannot be denied as a limited quality like the material characteristic of phenomenal nature.

The absolute infinitesimal has got his free will, and by his free will he can either pose himself as a forgetful agent or he can awaken himself for his original eternal function of remembering his own eternal exploits. The Fountainhead does never wish to delude nor oblige His parts - the infinitesimal spirits by devoiding them of such free will but allows them the freedom inherent in them.

The conditioned souls, out of their own discretion, rush into moods quite apathetic for not serving the Fountainhead when He Himself sends His message of delivering them through His messengers who act as spiritual guides to the wrong-doers. Both the Semitic and the non-Semitic people live in the impersonality of the Absolute; whereas, the clear eyes of the devotees can see the personality of Godhead as the Fountainhead of many conflicting and contending energies that foster the whims of different parties. Proneness to forgetfulness is afforded by the free will of non-devotees who are found to adopt wrong processes as their guiding principles.

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Kaj pa vem, bp, po moje te aryan ne more ogrozit, če si sam ne dopustiš možnosti, da bi te. Če se  že spustiš v debato, greš vanjo s prepričanjem, da boš prepričal. Se ti lahko zgodi tud to, da boš sam preprepričan od drugega, ker ta drugi gre v debato tud z namenom, da bo sogovrnika prepričal. Prepričat drugega je legitimna pravica vsakega udeleženca debate, zato ne vidm razloga, zakaj bi te to skrbel.

Je pa en drug problem pri komunikaciji z aryanom, ker nismo navajeni, da bi se tle gor soočale 'prakse', 'šole', ampak posmezniki, ki take in drugačne prakse in šole zastopajo al pa tud ne. Skratka, navajeni smo se predstatavljt  ločeno od svojih filozofskih, ideoloških, svetovnonazorskih stališč in življensjkih praks, ker jih imamo ponavda več in že zarad tega zgledamo ločeni od posamezne, čeprav v bistvu nismo. Aryan se odkrito identificira z eno, zato te 'samoprevare', da je 'nad' oziroma 'svoboden od' ali celo 'skeptičen do' svoje filozofije/šole/religije ne goji. Ker je ne goji do sebe, pričakuje, da je tud mi ne.

Mene na  tak način dostkrat spriovicira do tega, da svoja stališča skušam spravt en konsistenten sistem, ki bi deloval kolkr tolk celovito, pa četud je to 'moja' šola.

Bp, izkorsiti aryanovo 'provokacijo' za to, da seb pa nam tud predstaviš 'svojo' šolo. Zate je itak najboljša, četud ni nobene višje avtoritete za njo in z njo ne boš uspel  nobenga navdušit. Bo dost, če se vnej utrdiš sam, če ne pa nč hudga, ma že kakšne luknje, ki jih še moraš zafilat.  

Za letos končujem in želim vsem nam, da bi nas drug za drugega sicer skrbel, ampak da si zarad tega ne bi povzročal težav    

   

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Beyond Positive Thinking

This week’s Siddhaswarupananda (TV) program is about the Positive Thinking Movement. The Positive Thinking Movements begin with the notion that one should have a high estimation of oneself. We should not consider that we have limits in our lives as these are negative thoughts. If you actually observe these individuals however you will note that they are in fact in constant anxiety. They have to constantly battle against being negative and always having a smile on their face. They see negativity as the grand enemy – like the Devil.

And so they establish all sorts of games in order to
stay in “positive thinking land”. But they are never
actually happy. One positive thinking group was run by
a “Father Divine”. This group said that disease and
death is only due to negative thinking. So when
someone gets sick, they have anxiety about having
anxiety. Thus there is a continual battle to stay
afloat. If they see someone dying they want to deny it
because death is negative. This will make them afraid,
that they too can die.

This becomes a continual battle to stay on top of
everything but not being able to be on top of
everything. You will notice that positive thinking is
always about the body. It is to get more wealth, or
health, or a better mate, to become smarter, or such.
They will tell you “If you think you’re going to get
cancer then you’ll get cancer.” And if by chance you
get cancer you beat yourself up “Why was I thinking
negatively?”

Such people never want to admit that they are not in
complete control. It is in fact an “I-Am-God-Game”.
But because I am not actually God things don’t always
go the way I want them to go. One group called the
Sylvia Mind Control group tells people that there are
no limits to your power. This is nonsense. Of course
there are limits. If not then you are saying you are
God.

The only thing they can do is try. And when they fail
– which they always do – they’ll make believe they
wanted to fail as a learning experience.

Positive thinking in essence means you try to make the
world move according to your will. But you are not God
and the individual’s will is not all powerful. So you
end up always worried. You have no actual refuge.
Essentially they deny the existence of the Supreme
Controller by placing themselves in the position of
the supreme.

What sorts of people go to these positive thinking
seminars? [audience member says business people]. So
business people go because they want more money, more
material enjoyment. But they’ll never get everything
they want. You’ll see testimonials like “Through
positive thinking I made $200,000”. So what? Are you
happy?  

This is their idea that if they think positively they
will get some material enjoyment and from this
happiness. So negative to them means material poverty,
dying… these are the things to run from. But a person
cannot be in this world and be happy so long as they
are away from God. The Supreme Person is actually
always there as the controller and friend of everyone.
But if we don’t recognize this friend then we cannot
actually be happy.  

So positive thinkers are in a position where they
aren’t really positive thinkers. They are constantly
dwelling about how to avoid being negative. They don’t
transcend the negative. The live in a world of
positive and negative, good karma and bad karma. But
it can be transcended. How? By understanding our
relationship with the Supreme Person.

There is a Supreme Being who is beyond both positive
and negative. If I accept the will of God and dovetail
my will with his, then I too transcend the positive
and negative. Then there is no more anxiety. Positive
thinking means thinking things will go your way. Don’t
worry about this. Transcendental thinking means not
worrying about this.  

Everyone has desires, but make your desires those of
God. Dovetail your desires with the will of God. When
you do this you will know that “I don’t need to be in
control. God is in control. Everything is in God’s
hands”. Then you will no longer have to worry. All you
need to do is serve God. If you do this then you will
transcend the positive and negative thinking.

[Program ends. Voice comes up explaining how we can
transcend positive and negative thinking. It is
through the Holy Names of the Lord that we will have
no more anxiety. Two Bible verse are given:

Psalms 54:1 “Save me, O God, by thy name, and judge me
by thy strength.”

Psalms 124:8 “Our help is in the name of the Lord, who
made heaven and earth”

A short kirtan of the names “Gopala Govinda Rama,
Madana Mohana” closes out the program.]  


-------------------------
In this program Srila Siddhasvarupananda takes
questions from the audience during a world tour
program.

Question 1 – Do people use positive thinking as a way
of doing what they want without guilt?

Response: “Guilt is negative thinking. You shouldn’t
have these hang ups like guilt. Don’t let the
negativity creep in.” [this was all said in jest]. The
positive thinker is interested in his own will, not
the will of God. It should be understood that positive
thinking has nothing to do with spirituality. True
some will pose as religionists, but that does not make
it spiritual. Spiritual means to love God and to do
His will.  

Essentially the positive thinking movement is about
selfishness. It is a self-centered world where you
seek better health, more money, more enjoyment. You
become the most important person in your life. A few
of these TV preachers will say “The first and foremost
commandment is to love your neighbor. But how can you
love your neighbor if you don’t love yourself. Thus
the first thing to do is to love yourself.” They say
that the teachings of Jesus Christ is to first love
yourself. [now is a joking manner] But wasn’t there
something about body, mind, soul… about loving God as
the first and foremost commandment… yeah…. I think
Jesus said first love God with all your body, mind,
and soul… But these television preachers reverse it.
They say love yourself first, then love God. This is
the American translation of the Holy Gospel. And
people like to hear this. They want success in
business. This one guy has built a giant glass
cathedral. Some people build houses on sand at the low
tide. Others build Cathedrals of glass on the San
Andreas fault [note: I think he might be talking about
the Reverend Robert Schuler who has built the Crystal
Cathedral, and is known as a positive
thinker/motivation preacher].

Materialists will always be in anxiety. They get so
wrapped up in their thoughts. But we must transcend
positive and negative thinking. The foundation of this
positive thinking movement is that this whole world is
a manifestation of my mind. As I think so shall it be.
But this is simply a delusion of grandeur. Don’t be so
puffed up, so arrogant as to think that what you think
will happen will. It may be the exact opposite. You
are not the controller, God is.

There was a cartoon I once saw. It showed two boxers
beating each other up. Finally one of them wins and he
exclaims “I won!!!”. Then the cartoon zooms out to a
birds eye view of the ring. Then out more to show the
stadium from the sky. Then further out to show the
city. Then further out to show the planet earth. Then
further out into space to show our planet as a dot in
the universe. And yet he is saying “I am number one”.
[in a joking manner] If you think that your will is
true, then think for me to go away… but I won’t. You
can turn off your television set, but I’ll still be
here. Turn on your TV and there I am.  

Question 2 – I agree that the mind isn’t all powerful
but doesn’t it affect the body?

Response: Yes it has an effect on the body. We do
believe the mind can have psychic powers. And all yoga
meditations accept that the mind affects the body. Our
point is that the positive thinking propaganda that a
person’s limitations are self-induced is not true. The
mind has power but it is limited. It is not all
powerful. But people want the illusion of Lordship.
For all the positive thinking in the world they have
yet to surpass death, they can’t stop nature. It ends
up being simply a form of atheism. Rather than taking
shelter of God, instead they take shelter of their
mind. Maybe they are distressed, having some problems,
but they don’t turn to God. And even if you develop
these powers of the mind, that itself can be a greater
trap. Then you may fall even deeper into the idea that
you are God. Then they miss the real goal of life –
taking loving shelter of God. This is the purpose of
life. Do not take shelter of your own mind. It is
better to have loving surrender to God.  

gape wrote on 12.08.2003 at 12:38:35:

za duha res ni materialnih omejitev, torej prostorskih in casovnih. ampak tud ko se individualna dusa osvobodi teh telesnih/materialnh omejitev (takrat ko spozna in tudi prakticno odstrani koreninski vzrok omejitve), deluje v skladu s svojo vecno pozicijo, ki jo ima individualna dusa znotri "duhovne sfere". Bog je duh, mi smo tudi duh. smo eno, a hkrati razlicno. mi smo le delcek ene izmed njegovih potenc in kot taki namenjeni za Njegovo vecno sluzenje.

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ekstremi ti dajo neke zacasne uzitke ampak koncni rezultat je trpljenje/frustracija. it po sredin (nedelovanje) da mir. ampak v miru ni nbenga pozitivnega zadovoljstva/uzitka, je le mir, je tisina, je statika. ce pa delujes za Njega, je to hkrati delovanje (ki da uzitek) in hkrati nedelovanje (ki da mir). nemir povzroca nasa sebicna zelja po uzitku (delovanje, karmicna reakcija), mir pa da nedelovanje (ampak odstrani tudi uzitek). kako dosezt to dvoje hkrati? tist kar je logicno potrebno je hkrati logicno nemogoce?
delovat Zanj (po njegovih zeljah) da hkrati uzitek in mir.

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enost z Njim ne pomeni postati On.

ti si eno z Njim a hkrati razlicen. enost z Njim pomeni ljubezen. za ljubezen vemo, da sta potrebna dva ki se zdruzita v eno v interesu (in za to zrtvujeta svoj sebicen interes), a hkrati se vedno ostajata individuma.

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ce bi blo to res, pol mi nikol ne bi obcutil trpljenja. ampak ker ocitno ga, to pomen, da se ne strinjamo se lih cist z Njegovimi zeljami.

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ja sam za delovat pozitivno mors spet met nek dolocen znanje kaj je dobr in kaj ni za koga, kdaj in kje.

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se strinjam. treba je najprej sam izvajat neki, pol sele lahko to drugim predlagas. silit v drugega ali pa drzat zase pa nikol ni dobr.

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kaj ce bi jo najprej prebral prej, da pol ne bi blo mozno da ti takele spekulacije vn pridejo? tko al tko sem ti pa ze povedu, da mas navodila, ki se ticejo relativnih stvari in absolutnih. absolutna navodila veljajo za ves cas, za vse okoliscine in za katerkoli stopnjo razvoja. tiste stvari ki si jih ti zgori napisu, spadajo v to drugo, Absolutno navodilo. torej gre tvoje zgornje misljenje v nasprotju z navodili svetih spisov in realiziranih svetnikov.

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vzrok tega nezaustavljivega narascanja negativnosti iz "okoliskih mindov" pa je?

gape wrote on 12.08.2003 at 20:32:04:

ja, zmotni ego. ne ego kot ego, ampak le zmotni ego.

ego pomeni identiteta, ki jo vsi imamo za vedno. ce delujemo v skladu z zmotno identiteto/egom bomo le trpel. ce delujemo v skladu s pravo identiteto/egom bomo vecno zadovoljni.

ni dovolj le zanikat zmotnega-ega, da nam ne bo delal problemov (kot prestrasen zajec, ki zapre oci pred lacno lisico), ampak je treba za vsako ceno spoznat pravega in delovat v skladu z njim.