Aryan,

hvala za razsvetljenje. 8)

Tudi Hawking je končno odkril toplo vodo: da je dokazljivost šibkejši pojem od resnice in da ne moremo dokazati vsega, kar je resnično (kar pa po Gödlu ne pomeni nič drugega kot to, da je vsak formalni sistem nepopoln - v matematiki to pomeni, da neprotislovnosti klasične teorije števil ni moč dokazati s sredstvi te teorije same).
In tako je Hawking (končno) postal filozof.

Slava mu.

Bardo_Thodol wrote on 30.01.2003 at 12:25:13:

znanstvenikom slej kot prej rata jasno da s svojimi omejenimi instrumenti zaznave in logike, eksperimenta in spekulacij ne morjo dosezt "dokoncnega" (absolutnega) spoznanja, vseen pa si ne upajo zanikat da ne obstaja. nekateri pogumni grejo naprej, nekateri pa se naprej brcajo v meglo.

We must cross over the influence of time in order to live the carefree life we are seeking. We cannot find happiness by working against the clock to acquire something in this short life. We can find lasting happiness only by surrendering to the reality of our utter helplessness in the face of material nature, under whose jurisdiction we are controlled. From this recognition of our dire need comes the impetus to call for help-absolute help-for we who are absolutely helpless. Thus attracting the sympathy of Godhead, who is ever ready to heed the call of those who are meek and humble, our happy life beyond time is at hand.

Those who are philosophical in the fullest expression gain the courage to say, "I was mistaken". In doing so they find a new life, invisible though it may be to others.

It is at this point that philosophy (logic, experiment...) has served its purpose and can be retired. The positive experience of tangible spiritual life requires no rational validation. It fulfils the need of the heart as nothing else can. It leaves no room for doubt. It is not unreasonable, but it picks up where reason leaves off. My heart pines for this. Everything else pales in comparison.

Bardo_Thodol wrote on 30.01.2003 at 12:25:13:


Če se prav spominjam Hawking v Kratki zgodovini časa še ni premišljeval na tak način.

Goedla je pa sam Hawking omenil:
"All of the theories developed so far to explain the universe “are both inconsistent or incomplete,” Hawking said. He went on to discuss why it may not be possible to develop one complete theory of the universe, basing his argument on the work of Kurt Gödel. The Czech mathematician showed that within any branch of mathematics some propositions cannot be proven true or false. "

Bardo, bi me mogoče lahko razsvetlil s kakšnim takim popolnim formalnim sistemom (čeprav kje drugje).

Bardo_Thodol wrote on 30.01.2003 at 13:23:22:

spet odvisn katere. ampak kle bi se pa spet predolg zacel vse skp klobasat da se mi ze ne da vec.

Bardo_Thodol wrote on 30.01.2003 at 14:48:53:

se strinjam. ampak ce bos pod drobnogled vzel se drugo stran bos najdu skor identicno stevilko ki povzroca vse to (zatiranje). vcasih eni bl, drugi manj, vcasih drugi bolj, pa taprvi manj itd.

drgac pa Absolutno spoznanje ni neki kar je nedosegljivga, po drugi strani pa spet ni tok lahko kokr si nekateri predstavljamo.

Bardo_Thodol wrote on 30.01.2003 at 15:05:57:

Absolut more bit EN. ce bi reku da je neki izven njega pol to ne bi bil vec Absolut. Absolutno spoznanje pomeni zame "spoznati vse" oz. imeti univerzalni kljuc ki odpira VSA obstojeca zaprta vrata.

kjer je svetloba ne more bit teme. tam kjer je znanje ne more bit neznanja. ko ves "vse" v katerikoli okoliscini mozni takrat si zame Absolutno spoznan.