Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Forum Svet pogovorov gape.org
Sončeve pozitivke
pilcom.si
 
  HomeHelpSearchMembersLoginRegister  
 
Pages: 1 2 
(Read 5567 times)
Loops of Infinity
Ex Member




Prijateljskost
30.06.2005 at 13:33:34
 
prijateljskost je najvišji vrh ljubezni
spolnost je najnižji
ljubezen je točno v sredini
prijateljstvo je vrh

v spolnosti se sreča samo dvoje teles
v ljubezni dvoje src
v prijateljstvu dvoje duhov

prva je živalska
druga je človeška
tretje je božansko

OSHO



(iz pozitivk)
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
veronika
5
*****
Offline

angeli letijo zato, ker
se ne jemlejo resno
Posts: 1502

Gender: female
Re: Prijateljskost
Reply #1 - 30.06.2005 at 14:57:17
 
uf uf komaj čakam da se iz tega razije nesmislena debata  Grin
Back to top
 

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
 
IP Logged
 
miha--
Guest




Re: Prijateljskost
Reply #2 - 30.06.2005 at 17:52:07
 
prvo vprasanje je, ce je mozno tako prijateljstvo(kot misli osho) med zensko in moskim,
brez ljubezni in spolnosti
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Igor P.
Global Moderator
p
*****
Offline

Če ne mores živeti, kot
bi hotel, živi, kot zmoreš

Posts: 4800
Celje
Gender: male
Re: Prijateljskost
Reply #3 - 30.06.2005 at 23:33:21
 
Quote:
prvo vprasanje je, ce je mozno tako prijateljstvo(kot misli osho) med zensko in moskim,
brez ljubezni in spolnosti


To se tudi jaz sprašujem...???
Back to top
 

Če bi tisti, ki me obrekujejo, natančno vedeli, kaj si o njih mislim, bi me še mnogo bolj obrekovali.
 
IP Logged
 
Loops of Infinity
Ex Member




Re: Prijateljskost
Reply #4 - 01.07.2005 at 08:31:28
 
Zakaj ne bi bila možna?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
tai
3
***
Offline

I am grateful to be ME

Posts: 233

Gender: female
Re: Prijateljskost
Reply #5 - 01.07.2005 at 17:32:39
 
Quote:
prijateljskost je najvišji vrh ljubezni
spolnost je najnižji
ljubezen je točno v sredini
prijateljstvo je vrh

v spolnosti se sreča samo dvoje teles
v ljubezni dvoje src
v prijateljstvu dvoje duhov

prva je živalska
druga je človeška
tretje je božansko

OSHO



(iz pozitivk)



.. and this brings back good old memories... Smiley

itak da je to mozno... jst sm to dozivela - da si z nekom povezan na eni taki posebni ravni, da ga enostavno cuts, vids, da se ti zdi kot da gledas skozenj, da vids direktivo v duso - in mislm, da je to neki najlepsga, kar se ti lahko zgodi v lajfu, se posebej, ce gre za osebo nasprotnega spola.

Back to top
 

Be the change you wish to see in the world.
 
IP Logged
 
gogip
Guest




Re: Prijateljskost
Reply #6 - 02.07.2005 at 09:27:26
 
Itak, da je možno!!!!!!

Jaz imam že najboljšega prijatelja od 7-ga leta!!Pa je najino prijateljstvo bilo VEDNO le na tej ravni in nobeni ljubezensko romantični! Wink
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
t
5
p
*****
Offline

Ride si sapis!
Posts: 5103
Kozmos
Gender: male
Re: Prijateljskost
Reply #7 - 02.07.2005 at 11:20:38
 
Quote:
prijateljskost je najvišji vrh ljubezni
spolnost je najnižji
ljubezen je točno v sredini
prijateljstvo je vrh

v spolnosti se sreča samo dvoje teles
v ljubezni dvoje src
v prijateljstvu dvoje duhov

prva je živalska
druga je človeška
tretje je božansko

OSHO



(iz pozitivk)




Ne vem, kdo je tale Oshotov tekstič prevajal, vendar pa je krepko zajebal sceno.

Beseda "prijateljkost" je umotvor, ki ga ne moremo najti niti v SSKJ niti v pogovornih ali narečnih različicah.

Če nekoliko pošpekuliram, je izpeljanka iz pridevnika "prijateljski", ki pa samo ocenjuje, določen odnos, kar pa je seveda lahko zgolj krinka (nekdo je lahko zelo prijateljski, če v svojem obnašanju vidi določene koristi, kar pa nima praktično nobene zveze s prijateljstvom).

Sicer pa je prijateljstvo bilo najvišje postavljeno pri starih grkih - Aristotel: "Prijatelj je duša v dveh telesih." Ljubezen  pa je šele kasnejši derivat, ki so ga čez prijateljstvo navlekli krščanarji, kasneje pa dokončno uveljavili trubadurji.

"Prijateljskost" pa po moje lepo opiše Gregorčič

"Prijatelj" senci tvoji je enak,
ki zvesto za teboj se vije,
dokler ti sreče sonce sije;
a ko se pripodi oblak,
ko sonce ti zagrne mrak,
se tudi "senca" tvoja skrije!

(Simon Gregorčič)



Drugače pa vsa čast Oshotu, ki je tako lepo preprisal od Aristotela. Je pa nekoliko pomešal - spolnost oziroma razmnoževanje je zagotovo cilj ljubezni; najvišji s stališča življenja in preživetja vrste, medtem ko so ostali vrhovi zgolj najvišji s stališča takšnih in drugačnih moral in seveda je res, da je prijateljstvo najvišje možno razmerje med enakimi in kot tako tudi visoko nad ljubeznijo.


uživajte!
Back to top
 

Nič na svetu nikogar ne čaka. Nič ni dokončano, in vendar nič ne ostane nerazrešeno.
WWW WWW  
IP Logged
 
Loops of Infinity
Ex Member




Re: Prijateljskost
Reply #8 - 04.07.2005 at 09:00:41
 
t wrote on 02.07.2005 at 11:20:38:
Beseda "prijateljkost" je umotvor, ki ga ne moremo najti niti v SSKJ niti v pogovornih ali narečnih različicah.



Prijateljskost ni noben umotvor, če že tako misliš, potem so čist vse besede in vse, kar si je človek kdaj zmislil.

Že takoj v angleščini najdemo dve čisto lepi različni besedi friendliness in friendship. Slednje je prijateljstvo, friendliness je pa prijazna naravnanost, naklonjenost.

In ko prebolimo v smislu sebičnosti zaljubljenost in telesnost kot nižji vrh ljubezni (the only way out is through, btw, imo), potem res ne vem, kaj ostane, če ne prijateljskost, kar ne pomeni, da ostali dve nujno odpadeta Wink. Se ne izločujejo, ker je duh zmeraj prisoten.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
t
5
p
*****
Offline

Ride si sapis!
Posts: 5103
Kozmos
Gender: male
Re: Prijateljskost
Reply #9 - 04.07.2005 at 12:03:49
 
Quote:
Prijateljskost ni noben umotvor, če že tako misliš, potem so čist vse besede in vse, kar si je človek kdaj zmislil.

Že takoj v angleščini najdemo dve čisto lepi različni besedi friendliness in friendship. Slednje je prijateljstvo, friendliness je pa prijazna naravnanost, naklonjenost.



Seveda je - in to zelo beden umotvor, ki je (najbrž) v podobnem razmerju do prijateljstva, kot ljubeznivost do ljubezni.

In če imajo angležarji dve različni besedi, ki pomenita različni stvari hkrati pa imata obe isti koren - potem mora to imeti tudi slovenščina??

In ker Angleži nimajo dvojine, naj jo ukinemo tudi pri nas??

Taki umotvori kažejo predvsem na nesposobnost prevajalca.



uživaj!
Back to top
 

Nič na svetu nikogar ne čaka. Nič ni dokončano, in vendar nič ne ostane nerazrešeno.
WWW WWW  
IP Logged
 
tai
3
***
Offline

I am grateful to be ME

Posts: 233

Gender: female
Re: Prijateljskost
Reply #10 - 04.07.2005 at 20:29:43
 
Quote:
prijateljskost je najvišji vrh ljubezni
spolnost je najnižji
ljubezen je točno v sredini
prijateljstvo je vrh

v spolnosti se sreča samo dvoje teles
v ljubezni dvoje src
v prijateljstvu dvoje duhov

prva je živalska
druga je človeška
tretje je božansko

OSHO



(iz pozitivk)


bravo, t,
bistvo je gotovo v tem, da besede prijateljskost ni v SSKJ.
Back to top
 

Be the change you wish to see in the world.
 
IP Logged
 
Loops of Infinity
Ex Member




Re: Prijateljskost
Reply #11 - 05.07.2005 at 08:18:44
 
Jaz razumem prijateljstvo kot vez med dvema človekoma, kar pomeni, da jo negujeta in je obojestranska, ker je odvisna od obeh akterjev.  

Prijateljskost pa razumem kot naravnanost enega samega človeka do vsega in vseh, ne glede na to, kaj se "zunaj" njega dogaja in kakšen oz. ali je odziv na "drugi" strani. Sam s seboj torej.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Loops of Infinity
Ex Member




Re: Prijateljskost
Reply #12 - 05.07.2005 at 08:25:49
 
t wrote on 04.07.2005 at 12:03:49:
Seveda je - in to zelo beden umotvor, ki je (najbrž) v podobnem razmerju do prijateljstva, kot ljubeznivost do ljubezni.

In če imajo angležarji dve različni besedi, ki pomenita različni stvari hkrati pa imata obe isti koren - potem mora to imeti tudi slovenščina??

In ker Angleži nimajo dvojine, naj jo ukinemo tudi pri nas??

Taki umotvori kažejo predvsem na nesposobnost prevajalca.

uživaj!


Mislim, da kar si napisal bolj kaže na tvoje poistovečanje z narodnostjo in jezikom, občutek ogroženosti in nizki prag strpnosti do drugačnosti.


Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
t
5
p
*****
Offline

Ride si sapis!
Posts: 5103
Kozmos
Gender: male
Re: Prijateljskost
Reply #13 - 05.07.2005 at 09:05:22
 
Quote:
Mislim, da kar si napisal bolj kaže na tvoje poistovečanje z narodnostjo in jezikom, občutek ogroženosti in nizki prag strpnosti do drugačnosti.





Kakor se vzame. Je pa res, da težko prenašam neumnosti, katerim nekateri podlegajo v svojem hotenju, da bi bili čim bolj izvirni.

Sam zaradi tega nisem ogrožen, čeprav me vedno znova (neupravičeno) presenečajo takšne neumnosti, kot je zgornji slaboumni prevod.

Če bodo naši prevajalci svoje delo še naprej opravljali v tem slogu bomo kmalu pri Karađićevih potomcih - piši kao što govoriš, s poudarkom na tem, da to, česar ne najdeš v svojem jeziku preprosto posloveniziraš.




uživaj!
Back to top
 

Nič na svetu nikogar ne čaka. Nič ni dokončano, in vendar nič ne ostane nerazrešeno.
WWW WWW  
IP Logged
 
Loops of Infinity
Ex Member




Re: Prijateljskost
Reply #14 - 05.07.2005 at 09:20:18
 
What does Osho say about real friendship?  

What is real, authentic friendliness?
 

The question you have asked is very complex. You will have to understand a few other things before you can understand what real authentic friendliness is.

The first is friendship. Friendship is love without any biological tones to it. It is not the friendship that you understand ordinarily — the boyfriend, the girlfriend. To use the word friend in any way associated with biology is sheer stupidity. It is infatuation and madness. You are being used by biology for reproduction purposes.

If you think you are in love, you are wrong; it is just hormonal attraction. Your chemistry can be changed and your love will disappear. Just an injection of hormones and a man can become a woman and a woman can become a man.

Friendship is love without any biological tones. It has become a rare phenomenon. It used to be a great thing in the past, but a few great things in the past have completely disappeared. It is a very strange thing that ugly things are stubborn, they don’t die easily; and beautiful things are very fragile, they die and disappear very easily.

Today friendship is understood either in biological terms or in economic terms, or in sociological terms — in terms of acquaintance, a kind of acquaintance. But friendship means that if the need arises you will be ready even to sacrifice yourself. Friendship means that you have made somebody else more important than yourself; somebody else has become more precious than you yourself. It is not a business. It is love in its purity.


This friendship is possible even the way you are now. Even unconscious people can have such a friendship. But if you start becoming more conscious of your being, then friendship starts turning into friendliness. Friendliness has a wider connotation, a far bigger sky. Friendship is a small thing compared to friendliness. Friendship can be broken, the friend can turn into an enemy. That possibility remains intrinsic in the very fact of friendship.


I am reminded of Machiavelli giving guidance to the princes of the world in his great work, The Prince. One of his guidelines is, Never tell anything to your friend which you would not be able to say to your enemy, because the person who is a friend today may turn into an enemy tomorrow. And the suggestion following that is, Never say anything against the enemy, because the enemy can turn into a friend tomorrow. Then you will be very embarrassed.

Machiavelli is giving a very clear insight: that our ordinary love can change into hate, our friendship can become enmity any moment. This is the unconscious state of man — where love is hiding hate just behind it, where you hate the same person you love but you are not aware of it.

Friendliness becomes possible only when you are real, you are authentic, and you are absolutely aware of your being. And out of this awareness, if love arises it will be friendliness. Friendliness can never change into its opposite. Remember this as a criterion, that the greatest values of life are only those which cannot change into their opposite; in fact there is no opposite.

You are asking, “What is real authentic friendliness?” It will need a great transformation in you to have a taste of friendliness. As you are, friendliness is a faraway star. You can have a look at the faraway star, you can have a certain intellectual understanding, but it will remain only an intellectual understanding, not an existential taste.

Unless you have an existential taste of friendliness, it will be very difficult, almost impossible to make a distinction between friendship and friendliness. Friendliness is the purest thing you can conceive about love. It is so pure that you cannot even call it a flower, you can only call it a fragrance which you can feel and experience, but you cannot catch hold of. It is there, your nostrils are full of it, your being is surrounded by it. You feel the vibe, but there is no way to catch hold of it; the experience is so big and so vast and our hands are too small.

I said to you that your question is very complex, not because of the question, but because of you. You are not yet at the point from where friendliness can become an experience. Be real, be authentic and you will know the purest quality of love — just a fragrance of love surrounding you always. And that quality of the purest love is friendliness. Friendship is addressed to someone, somebody is your friend.

Once Gautam Buddha was asked, “Does the enlightened man have friends?” and he said, “No.” The questioner was shocked because he was thinking the man who is enlightened must have the whole world as his friend. But Gautam Buddha is right, whether you are shocked or not. When he says, “The enlightened man has no friends,” he is saying he cannot have friends because he cannot have enemies. They both come together. Friendliness he can have, but not friendship.

Friendliness is unfocused, unaddressed love. It is not any contract, spoken or unspoken. It is not from one individual to another individual; it is from one individual to the whole existence, of which man is only a small part, because trees are included, animals are included, rivers are included, mountains are included, stars are included. Everything is included in friendliness.

Friendliness is just the way of your being real and authentic; you start radiating it. It comes on its own accord, you don’t have to bring it. Whoever comes close to you will feel the friendliness. That does not mean that nobody will be your enemy. As far as you are concerned, you will not be an enemy of anyone, because you are no more a friend to anyone. But your height, your consciousness, your blissfulness, your silence, your peace will annoy many, will irritate many, will make many, without understanding you, your enemies.

In fact the enlightened men have more enemies than the unenlightened. The unenlightened may have a few enemies, a few friends. The enlightened men have almost the whole world antagonistic towards them, because the blind people cannot forgive the man who has eyes, and the ignorant cannot forgive one who knows. They cannot feel love towards a man who has attained to his fulfillment, because their egos are hurt.

Just the other day I received four letters from four different American prisons. All the four prisoners are asking for sannyas. One American prisoner has been reading my books. Since I was in that prison for one day, the authorities became interested, the prisoners became interested, so they must have ordered my books.

The prisoner has been reading those books. Although he is an American, he writes that “Osho, reading your books, listening to you on the television, and when you were in the prison for one day, I was also here” — he has been there for almost five years. “It was a blissful experience for me and I will never forget the day we were together in the same cell; it has been the most important day of my life. And I have been carrying something in me which I want to express to you. You have not committed any sin — of that I was absolutely certain the moment I saw you — but to be innocent seems to be a greater crime than any other. And because you were talked about on the radio, on the television, your books were read all over the country, there came a moment when you were more important a figure than the president of America. That’s what triggered the whole process of destroying your commune, imprisoning you — just to humiliate you.”

I was surprised that a prisoner would have such a deep insight. He is saying that “people like you are bound to be condemned, because even the greatest, most powerful people look like pygmies before your consciousness and your height. It is your fault,” he is saying to me. “If you were not so successful, you would have been ignored. If your commune was not so successful, nobody would have bothered about you.”

The enlightened man has no friends, no enemies, but only a pure love, unaddressed. He is ready to pour into anybody’s heart who is available. That is real authentic friendliness.

But such a man will provoke many egos, will hurt those who think they are very important and powerful people. The presidents and the queens and the prime ministers and the kings will become immediately worried, concerned. A man who has no power has suddenly become the focus of attention of the people, attracts more people than the people who have power and money and prestige. Such a man cannot be forgiven. He has to be punished whether he has committed any crime or not. And a man of enlightenment cannot commit a crime; that is just a sheer impossibility. But to be innocent, to be friendly, to be loving for no reason at all, just to be yourself is enough to trigger many egos against you.

So when I say, “The enlightened man has no enemies,” I mean that from his side he has no enemies. But from others’ side, the greater his height, the more will be their antagonism against him, the more will be the enmity, hatred, condemnation. This is how it has been happening for centuries.

Nirvano was just telling me the other day that the day I was fined four hundred thousand dollars — more than half a crore rupees — knowing perfectly well that I don’t possess a single paisa, a single cent, the attorney who was working for Nirvano told her, “They have done it again.” She asked him, “What are you saying?” And he said, &lwquo;Yes, they have done it again. They have again crucified Jesus, they have again punished a man who is utterly innocent — but his innocence hurts their egos.”

Just an intellectual understanding will not be enough — although it is good to have some intellectual understanding, because that may help you move towards existential experience. But only the experience will give you the full taste of the tremendous sweetness, the beauty, the godliness and the truth of love.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2