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Re: Božja kazen
Reply #30 - 17.01.2005 at 13:51:59
 
Devi wrote on 17.01.2005 at 13:40:16:
sej v bistvu se strinjam s tem
sam če bi vse motive ljudi pripisovali zgolj instituciji, v katero je nekdo vključen, pol bi lahko v primeru de Melloja rekli, da krščanstvo ljudi k budizmu napeljuje



Moje mnenje je samo, da so vse verske inštitucije pridobitniške in kot take bi jih morali v kapitalizmu jemati - če lahko obdavčujejo študente, zakaj ne bi mogli obdavčiti raznih cerkva, saj tudi one le prodajajo svoje produkte - nebesa in podoben šit.

Majo vse in bi jih z lahkoto obdavčili, vera pa naj bo luksuz, obdavčen po najvišji možni davčni stopnji, tako kot mamila.


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Re: Božja kazen
Reply #31 - 17.01.2005 at 13:55:54
 
Mislim, da je ponekod po svetu tako, da morajo verniki plačevati za to, da se tudi formalno lahko deklarirajo kot verniki.
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... Sometimes I feel that I should go and play with the thunder...
 
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Re: Božja kazen
Reply #32 - 17.01.2005 at 14:01:20
 
Lilith wrote on 17.01.2005 at 13:55:54:
Mislim, da je ponekod po svetu tako, da morajo verniki plačevati za to, da se tudi formalno lahko deklarirajo kot verniki.

ja, to je pa državna kazen Grin
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Nobena čarovnija ne more ničesar spremeniti v kaj drugega, tega ni; sprememba v predstavi v srcu čarovnije je spoznanje, ne ustvarjanje.&&(S. Palwick)
 
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Re: Božja kazen
Reply #33 - 17.01.2005 at 14:23:09
 
Lilith wrote on 17.01.2005 at 13:55:54:
Mislim, da je ponekod po svetu tako, da morajo verniki plačevati za to, da se tudi formalno lahko deklarirajo kot verniki.




Seveda - preprosto se uvede cerkveni davek, in davek cerkvi. Cerkev in ostale verske združbe naj se tretirajo kot pridobitniške organizacije in za svoje delovanje plačajo tudi davek.

Vsi lastniki plačujejo davek na nepremičnine, razen Cerkve, poleg tega je Cerkev ena od organizacij, pri kateri se nikoli ne ve, koliko denarja šiba okrog v raznih kovčkih. Totalno mafijsko. Siva ekonomija na kvadrat!


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Re: Božja kazen
Reply #34 - 17.01.2005 at 14:58:07
 
Religij ni pametno kriminalazirat in prepovedaovat.

Podobno kot velja za drogo pa bi  blo  pametno omejevat njihovo družbeno škodljivost. Najprej jih je treba  ločit od države in jih omejit na zasebno sfero, omejit na prostore za širjenje in prakticiranje, prepovedat   dostop do njih  maldoletnim osebam, jih prepovedat ogalševat, jih obdavičt kot luxuz oz. dejavnost, ki potencialno ogroža duševno in telesno zdravje... In vzgajat folk v ozaveščanju zlorab  inštitucionalizirane religioznosti  oz. jih informirat o koristnosti osebne religioznosti za zdravo osebnostno rast in ozaveščanje.

Tko približno,  kot to skušamo eni tle precej po pionisrko delat drug drugmu izven  inštitucionalnih, državnih in komercialnih okvirov...

 
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Re: Božja kazen
Reply #35 - 17.01.2005 at 15:22:37
 
v bistvu je vse kar je treba to, da vsak pri sebi najprej razčisti Wink
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Re: Božja kazen
Reply #36 - 17.01.2005 at 21:06:11
 
Petra. wrote on 16.01.2005 at 22:15:47:
lahko ti še zaupam, da je sonce spet ponorelo, in so bli včeraj izbruhi, danes že cel dan zelo čudno magnetno sevanje sonca, tam nekje od danes na jutri bodo kozmični žarki tega uzbruha prišli  do Zemlje....



kaj pa vpliva na Sonce, da se to dogaja na Soncu  Roll Eyes

erupcije na Soncu vplivajo na magnetna polja in mreže na Zemlji (po spominu), zakaj pa dogaja na Soncu in the first place ?? a kdo tuki ve ?  Wink

http://spaceweather.com

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Re: Božja kazen
Reply #37 - 17.01.2005 at 21:34:31
 
lih zdele hude nevihte sončeve spet;)
http://www.n3kl.org/sun/noaa.html



First I will start with a MSNBC article released Wednesday suggesting what we are seeing today in the way of escalated earth changing events are “cycles” the Earth has seen many times before. I’m sure this put a sour taste in the mouth of environmental zealots who have spent millions of dollars and endless energy trying to manipulate you into thinking “you” were solely the cause of today’s warming/cooling trends. In fact, there were a few zealots who even tried to connect the tragedy of the Indian Ocean tsunami with so-called global warming. But as soon as they received a negative backlash, they let it go.



The title of the MSNBC article reads “Is Something Wrong With Mother Earth?”. The answer is NO. The article goes on to pose the question…”Should we be worried?”

"The world is not coming to an end," says NASA scientist Dr. David Adamec. "Things are fine." Dr. Adamec studies the Earth and says there is no scientific data (whoops, the environmental zealots aren’t going to like that) to suggest all this violence from the Earth, at the same time, is unusual. In other words…it is all about natural cycles the Earth has seen many times before. Full Article



So what is it that drives these ‘natural cycles’? It is the Sun! Scientific data clearly shows a symbiotic causal connection between the Sun’s solar cycles and Earth’s extreme temperature changes. A team led by University of Maine scientists has reported finding a link between changes in solar activity and the Earth’s climate. In a paper due to be published in an upcoming volume of the Annals of Glaciology, Paul Mayewski, director of UMaine’s Climate Change Institute, and 11 colleagues from China, Australia and UMaine describe evidence from ice cores pointing to an association between the waxing and waning of zonal wind strength around Antarctica and a chemical signal of changes in the Sun’s output.



Equation:

Sunspots -> Solar Flares (CME’s) -> Magnetic Field Shift -> Shifting Ocean and Jet Stream Currents -> Extreme Weather and Human Disruption (mitch battros)



At the heart of the paper, Solar Forcing of the Polar Atmosphere, are calcium, nitrate and sodium data from ice cores collected in four Antarctic locations and comparisons of those data to South Pole ice core isotope data for beryllium-10, an indicator of solar activity. The authors also point to data from Greenland and the Canadian Yukon that suggest similar relationships between solar activity and the atmosphere in the northern hemisphere. They focus on years since 1400 when the Earth entered a roughly 500-year period known as the Little Ice Age. (whoops, I wonder how many SUV’s and smoke stacks were available in the 15th century. So much for so-called global warming theory)



Before I go forward and completing the driving forces of Earth’s weather and climate, and for the first time introducing what may be the driving force of the Sun’s cycle, let me make my routine announcement. I Mitch Battros, am in full support of a “clean air and water” mandate. I believe fully in being responsible for my immediate community and for the world community. I believe in recycling and all methods of maintaining a clean and sustainable environment. This is something we do have within our power and I advocate holding responsible all those who violate reasonable stewardship of our home “Earth”. But this has nothing to do with so-called global warming. This is something the environmental zealots created to facilitate getting their “government grant money” and attempt to procreate their cult. There is no credible sustainable scientific data which suggest “we” are the cause of current or past extreme weather,! earth change events, or rapid climactic changes. This is a “lie”. In short…what I am saying is the Earth would experience what we see today, and what is to come, If There Were No Humans On Earth.



Now for something really exciting… a recent study conducted by professor Glennys Farrar, a physicist at New York University, New York City, has used a new analysis technique to identify ultra-high-energy cosmic rays (UHECRs). This could in fact be the very substance, or energy field that drives the cycles of the Sun.



UHECR’s appear to be mostly protons and atomic nuclei. Magnetic fields - with an unknown source which accelerate the particles to almost the speed of light. This makes UHECRs so energetic that some astronomers doubt that even the most extreme cosmic events, such as the explosive birth of a black hole, could account for their power.

Professor Farrar says the underlying source of the cosmic rays could be a long-lived process - such as a super-massive black hole slurping up surrounding matter - or magnetic shocks produced by the colliding galaxy clusters. Or it could be produced by a sudden, cataclysmic event like such as an explosion of matter and energy that signals the birth of some black holes, giving off a gamma-ray burst.



Farrar is presenting her findings on Thursday at a meeting of the American Astronomical Society in San Diego, California. Full Article



So perhaps my new Equation will read:

UHECRs -> Increased Solar Activity -> Sunspots -> Solar Flares (CME’s) -> Earth’s Magnetic Field Shift -> Shifting Ocean and Jet Stream Currents -> Extreme Weather and Human Disruption (mitch battros)



Wink116888  
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Re: Božja kazen
Reply #38 - 17.01.2005 at 22:24:39
 
Petra. wrote on 17.01.2005 at 21:34:31:
UHECR’s appear to be mostly protons and atomic nuclei. Magnetic fields with an unknown source which accelerate the particles to almost the speed of light.



thx Kali.  Smiley
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Re: Božja kazen
Reply #39 - 18.01.2005 at 09:02:59
 
Petra. wrote on 17.01.2005 at 15:22:37:
v bistvu je vse kar je treba to, da vsak pri sebi najprej razčisti Wink


Kolektivne katastrofe zgledajo čist najmanj primerne za  samostojen razmislek, ker ravno v njih najbolj pride do izraza občestvena solidranost članov  posameznih cerkva in istitucionaliziranih religij, na katero se folk opre, ko razpade naravno okolje, v katerem se počut varnega.

Paradoks je v tem, da pol folk začne svojo varnost povezovat s pripadnostjo občestvu, strah pred izgubo pripadnosti temu  občestvu oziroma strah pred konkurenčnim  občestvom pa začne   začne občutit za hujšo grožnjo kot grožnjo  naravne katastrofe same.

Zarad tega tud medetični spospadi na verski osnovi postanejo folku čist sprejemljiva oblika lastne smrti in smrti drugih, čeprav terjajo dost več življenj kot vse naravne katastrofe skupaj.  Tle jest vidm tud povezavo med krutimi medeitičnimi spopadi na verski osnovi in odvisnostjo folka od nepredvidljive narave. Ne gre torej tolk za to kot stojči pravi, da narava 'kaznuje' folk za njihovo hudobijo, ampak za to, da se folk neustrezno odziva na naravne pojave in se zateka po varnost v religiozne sisteme, ki jim te varnosti ne morejo zagotovit (v bistvu se vzdržujejo na permamentni grožnji s katstrofo), zato krivdo za lastno neposbnost mečejo na konkurenco.

Posredno bi se morda celo dalo trdit, da je hubobija folka kriva, da  je tolk žrtu naravnih   katasrof, saj se prav zarad religiozno/etičnih konfliktov folk ne uspe zedinit, da bi si varnost zagotavljal globalno s pomočjo informacijske tehnologije in bolj  varne arhitekture.
 

V tem smislu so religije hujše od tsunamijev.
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Re: Božja kazen
Reply #40 - 18.01.2005 at 10:19:08
 
titud wrote on 18.01.2005 at 09:02:59:
Posredno bi se morda celo dalo trdit, da je hubobija folka kriva, da  je tolk žrtu naravnih   katasrof, saj se prav zarad religiozno/etičnih konfliktov folk ne uspe zedinit, da bi si varnost zagotavljal globalno s pomočjo informacijske tehnologije in bolj  varne arhitekture.
 

V tem smislu so religije hujše od tsunamijev.

Hudobija niti ni posledica religij, to je pač v vsakem posamezniku ali pa ni.
Religija je pogosto krinka in potuha raznih hudodelstev posameznikov, ki da jih počnejo v "višjem" interesu.

Iz religij pa lahko izhaja veliko nevanejša ravnodušnost in varljivo zanašanje na nadnaravne sile, ki, da bodo že nekako poskrbele za nas.
Dejansko pa za našo varnost ne bo poskrbel nihče "od zgoraj", če tega ne bomo storili sami.

Pomagaj si sam in Bog ti bo pomagal!


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Re: Božja kazen
Reply #41 - 18.01.2005 at 10:23:57
 
Bardo_Thodol wrote on 18.01.2005 at 10:19:08:
Pomagaj si sam in Bog ti bo pomagal!

se strinjam.

sam se morm prostovoljno preda(ja)t Bogu in takrat mi On hoce in mi tud bo vedno pomagal.
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Re: Božja kazen
Reply #42 - 18.01.2005 at 10:26:55
 
Bardo_Thodol wrote on 18.01.2005 at 10:19:08:
Pomagaj si sam in Bog ti bo pomagal!



Zaupaj Alahu in priveži kamelo.   8)


(da vzpostavimo medreligijske mostove)



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Re: Božja kazen
Reply #43 - 18.01.2005 at 10:49:37
 
Madan Gopal Das wrote on 18.01.2005 at 10:23:57:
se strinjam.

sam se morm prostovoljno preda(ja)t Bogu in takrat mi On hoce in mi tud bo vedno pomagal.


Če si pod predajanje predstavljaš pridobivanje in širjenje znanja, potem se strinjam.

Če si pa pod predajanjem predstavljaš samo recitiranje verzov in prosto veseljačenje, pa mislim, da je to malce premalo ...



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Re: Božja kazen
Reply #44 - 18.01.2005 at 10:58:47
 
Bardo_Thodol wrote on 18.01.2005 at 10:19:08:
Hudobija niti ni posledica religij, to je pač v vsakem posamezniku ali pa ni.
Religija je pogosto krinka in potuha raznih hudodelstev posameznikov, ki da jih počnejo v "višjem" interesu.


Religije v svoje jadra lovijo strahove posameznikov in jim s tem  dajejo kolektivno moč. Preplašeni posamezniki ne morejo drug drugmu nikol nardit tolk škode kot ga lahko drugim (in stem tud sami seb) nardijo  organizarni in klektivno usmerjani  strahovi.  

Quote:
Iz religij pa lahko izhaja veliko nevanejša ravnodušnost in varljivo zanašanje na nadnaravne sile, ki, da bodo že nekako poskrbele za nas.
Dejansko pa za našo varnost ne bo poskrbel nihče "od zgoraj", če tega ne bomo storili sami.


Zanašanje na nadnaravne sile je posledica pojmovanja nadnarav nih  sil kot subjektivne volje nekoga, na katerega posameznik ne more neposredno vplivat in zato zahteva posameznikov neomajno vero in pokoršino.

V pricipu tako pojmovanje  ne bi smelo imet negativnih posledic za folk, če religije ta neomajne vere in pokorščine ne bi omejevale na svojega boga, neizpolnjevanje   zaupanja pa pripisovale pomanjkanju vere ali delovanju  konkunkrence.  


Quote:
Pomagaj si sam in Bog ti bo pomagal!



Za obupat je, kadar se z lastno pomočjo onemogočamo  pred božjo pomočjo.  To se praviloma dogaja takrat, ko je taka  samopomoč uperjena proti drugim  in se nam zato naravne katstrofe povrnejo  še enkart skoz družbene katastrofe. Ko  še  družba začne delovat nasprot nam  kot nadnaravna sila  je res skrajen cajt, da se zamislimo nad religioznim  konceptom nadnaravnega spoh.  
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