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General >> Verstva, religije, filozofije, kulture >> Hare Krishna http://www.gape.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1067424642 Message started by aryan on 29.10.2003 at 11:50:42 |
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Title: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 29.10.2003 at 11:50:42 Na kaj najprej pomislite ko slisite ali kje preberete Hare Krishna? Zanima me koliko ljudje na tem forumu (ali v Slo) na splosno vejo o tem, glede filozofije, izvora, prakse, namena, cilja... |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by stojchi on 29.10.2003 at 12:39:54 :) najbolj po rezultatih dogajanja v Hare Krišna centru v Ljubljani v Šiški :) |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by mind on 29.10.2003 at 13:43:01 jaz sem ob imenu "Hare Krishna" preden si se ti pojavil na forumu imel v mislih le "aha, to so oni harekrishnovci, ki so tud v ljubljani in ki nekaj pojejo in predstavljajo indijsko religijo/filozofijo" zdaj vem, da je Hare Krishna eno izmed neomejenih imen Boga, in da je Gospod prisoten v srcih vseh živih bitij, ki so ustvarjena z namenom služiti Mu v ljubezni LP |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 29.10.2003 at 14:05:56 Jest v hare krišna mantranju vidim eno obliko psihološko tehnike regresije v enost, katere nujnost se da filozofsko da čist konistentno utemeljit in kot tako dostracioanlno sprejet, ne da pa se je brez mantranja realizirat. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 29.10.2003 at 14:12:17 titud wrote on 29.10.2003 at 14:05:56:
kaj je to "psiholoska tehnika regresije v enost" ? |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 29.10.2003 at 14:51:32 wrote on 29.10.2003 at 14:12:17:
Hvaljenje, čaščenje stavrnikovega imena, ki ti je induvidalnost podaru samo zato, da ga lahko hvališ in častiš in s tem popolnima izpolniš v svoji induvidualnosti. Mojstri sami primerajo spoštlivost izgovorjave božjega imena z materinim, saj se skoznjo induvidualiziramo, da bi jo častili. Jest tako čašenje razumem kot obliko infantilnosti, povzročene z ekstazo ob petju/ gibanju, neglede na to, da je zavestno usmerjana in poteka ob hkartnem polnem zavedanju tega procesa regresije. Zato to tehniko tako kot druge podobne oblvadajo le redki mojstri, ostali večinoma obtičijo v hipnotični ekstazi, povzroečni s ponavljanjem melodije in besdeila in jim je pač fajn, ne da bi sami točno vedeli zakaj. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 29.10.2003 at 15:05:49 se enkrat ponavljam vprasanje... wrote on 29.10.2003 at 14:12:17:
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 29.10.2003 at 15:37:55 Melodija usklajena z vibracijo ritma, vibracija glasu uskljen z vibracijo instrumenta, vibracija glasu usklajena zdrugimi glasovi, vibracija glasov in instrumentov uskaljena z vibriranjem telesa, vibrairanje galsov/inštrumnov/telesa usklajeno z vibracijo misli... Kaj hočeš več za dosego občutka pripadnosti induvidualnosti enosti kozmične zavesti... za popln užitek te regresije v eno je potrebno še polno induviualno zavedanje te enosti, ki ga kot rečeno, obvladajo le mojstri. Ali sem te zadovoljil ali pa te morda moti predvsem to, da sem uporabu pojem regresija namest npr. transcedentna progresija? |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 29.10.2003 at 15:49:26 titud wrote on 29.10.2003 at 15:37:55:
zakaj pa je po tvoje to tok tezko dosezt, da lahko to, kar si zgori opisu, obvlada le pescica oseb? |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 29.10.2003 at 16:31:15 Zato ker hkratne polne zavesti o lastni induvidualnosti ob polni prepustitvi trancedentalnim vibracijam, ki vlečejo (nazaj) v enost, ni mogoče dosečt. Ker finta je spoznanju, da ni niti enosti niti induvidulnosti ampak je vse kr neki, vse-eno in nesmiselno. S polno zavestjo pa kaj tkega zmorejo ozvestit le mojstri, drugi pa nanjdemo užitek v pripovedovanju pravljic, da je hkratno zavedanje induvidulanosti in enosti možno, ali v izgubi/motnji zavedanja sploh. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 29.10.2003 at 16:36:57 titud wrote on 29.10.2003 at 16:31:15:
zakaj ne? Quote:
taksno je tvoje spoznanje? |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 29.10.2003 at 16:45:47 wrote on 29.10.2003 at 16:36:57:
Zato, ker ne. Tako spozanje sem si prisvojil na podlagi svojih izkušenj in od svojih avtoritet, tko kot si ti svoja. Zdej bi pa jest odstopu plac za debato na temo hare krišna še drugim, ker se mi zdi škoda, da jo preveč zaznamujem in in ne zvem še kaj drugega od drugih. Se mi zdi tud kar nekak škoda, da se iz indije ukvarjaš sam z mano... |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 29.10.2003 at 16:59:05 titud wrote on 29.10.2003 at 16:45:47:
po moje je boljs, da bi sam prakticiral in iz lastnih izkusenj izvedu, kokr da samo poslusas od drugih, se posebej od tistih, ki tud nimajo nic prakticnih izkusenj. Quote:
sem ze v slo. tko, da ni problema, ti kr pis. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by Jst on 29.10.2003 at 20:13:01 Hi, Meni je v spominu dobr ostal en harekrisnovc, ki je pozvonil na nasa vrata, da bi kaksen kseft naredil. Se pravi, da bi mi kaksno knjigo prodal. Sem takrat glih Klasike Daoizma prebral, kjer so zagovarjali spontanost in vedenje zivali v njim danih okoliscinah, ki izhaja iz njihovega prirojenega sledenja naravnim tokovom itd., itd. Ja, pa mi je zacel nekaj pridigat, da smo ljudje kot zivali itd., itd. Jest sem mu seveda oporekal, da slabo vedenje ljudi primerjati s zivalskim vedenjem je skrajno neprimerno, ker da izhaja iz nerazumevanja naravnih zakonov. On pa svoje, itd., itd. Tko sva se malce dajala, kdo bo koga. No, zadeva se je koncala tako, da je model tolk popizdil, da sem mislil, da bova fizicno obracunala. Na koncu mi je grozil z ne vem katerimi bogovi in ves besen zbezal (pred zverjo v meni). Meni osebno zelo smesna prigodica. Moram rect, da sem v debati uzival do skrajnosti. Drgac pa nimam z njimi samo take izkusnje. S prijateljem sva sla parkrat v njihov hram v Siski, ze pred leti sicer, predvsem na njihovo dobro glasbo in odlicen zastonj prigrizek. Bili so izredno prijazni, odprti, pozorni in vedno se je k nama kdo usedel in naju vodil, se pogovarjal, odgovarjal na vprasanja itd., itd. Res dober filing, tko da sem bil kar presenecen, ko sem kasneje bral o aferah v hramu v Siski. Ja, sem mel tudi sreco poslusati pridigo nekega visokega mojstra, sicer nemskega rodu. V hramu so ga skoraj po bozje castili, meni osebno pa je deloval izredno osabno. Njegova pridiga je bila skrajno naivno antimaterialisticna. Nisem mogel verjel, da ga ostali, sicer inteligentni ljudje, tako po bozje castijo. So Hare Krisne se dostikrat upadli v moj life, sam ni blo nikol nic omembe vrednega. Npr. kasneje sem mel tud dobrga prijatelja Hare Krisno, sam tud ni blo nic omembe vrednega, ceprav sva dost debatirala. Se je model vec ali manj iskal, to pa je tud vse. Zdej itak zivi svoj life povprecnega slovenca z govejimi zupicami in nedeljskimi masami. Trebuh mu raste pa sem pa tja kaksno zensko prtisne, ce glih da. Tko kot je tud edin pravilno. Lp Jst |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 29.10.2003 at 21:37:50 kolk pa pozna kdo kej filozofije/teorije in prakse? |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 31.10.2003 at 10:50:43 Mind your thoughts! - The Hindustan Times - HT Faith - Swami Bhakti Ballabh Tirtha (New Delhi, October 30) Controlling our thoughts is easier said than done. Thoughts and ideas flow through our mind endlessly. It's our duty to strive towards mind control as it brings with it inner peace and contentment. And only when one is at peace with oneself that one can strive towards unity with God. Everyone, even gurus who went on to attain enlightenment, have to do intense sadhana (penance) before they can control their thoughts and focus on God. Sense organs clutter our minds with images of the material world, like a camera snapping photographs of the world through our eyes, ears, nose, tongue and skin. Fulfilling the demands of the senses gives temporary pleasure, but this pleasure is delusional and ultimately results in suffering. What makes mind control difficult is the fact that our minds are preoccupied with worldly thoughts all the time. It is impossible for us to wipe out these thoughts from our mind all of a sudden. How can you control the mind? According to Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, the more you imbibe divine thoughts in your mind, the easier it is to purge out worldly ideas. Lord Krishna advises us to practice abhyasyoga (practice) and vairagya (detachment). Actually, vairagya has two implications: detachment to worldly non-eternal objects and attachment to God. Continuous practice of detachment to worldly objects will gradually remove material thoughts that leave us restless and dissatisfied. It will bring an inner peace that will help us develop an unconditional and pure love for the Supreme. Love God and all His beings For love of God is essential for human beings to exist in peace with themselves and the rest of the world. According to Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Transcendental Divine Love is the strongest spiritual force on earth. It can establish close relation of love and unity of hearts amongst all human beings and thereby establish real peace in the world. The Vedas say, "Ma hinsat sarvani bhutani" (Don't injure any living thing). If we do not want suffering, we should not injure any jiva (living thing). Divine Love means love of divinity and love of all in relation to divinity. Human beings are selfish. We are not inclined to love others if we can establish a relationship or connection with them. But we easily form attachments to people and things we perceive as our own. For example, parents have a natural love for children. No parent needs to be taught how to love their own children. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu teaches us that all jivas come from the same source: God. If we love truly God, we will love all living things automatically. Love is superior to non-violence. Non-violence means to abstain from doing injury to others. This is negative aspect, but love means to do good to others, this is positive. Chaitanya's message of Divine Love has of late received universal appreciation in the world and people belonging to different countries, nations and faiths have accepted that only universal love can beget everlasting peace. God as the centre When there are different centres of interests, nobody can avoid clashes between individuals, groups, nations etc. For example, if circles are drawn with different centres, the circumferences are bound to cross each other. But if there is one centre of interest, smaller and bigger circles can exist without crossing. According to Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, there should be knowledge of the real self, real interest and one centre of interest. Only God can be the common centre as all our souls have emanated from Him. Love for God thus translates into love for all beings, great or small. And if such a love exists, one cannot inflict injuries to anyone, as such a love makes everyone a part of you. If we truly love God, we cannot have the impetus to inflict injuries to any of His beings, who are all a part of the divine soul. All living things are inter-related through their common bond with God. Lord Krishna has said in the Bhagavad Gita (18.62) "O son of Bharat, surrender unto Him utterly. By His Grace you will attain transcendental peace and supreme and eternal abode." Only a complete and unconditional surrender to God can bestow eternal peace on us. The moment we submit to God unconditionally, all our ills and sufferings will go. Sense perceptions are delusional and create false egos, which lead to a clash of interest. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has said that if individual souls can have the knowledge that they are interrelated with God, the clash of interests will stop and everyone will live in harmony. Thus Divine Love is the best and only solution for universal peace. This Divine Love (prema bhakti) for God can be cultivated by 'nama-sankirtan', or the chanting of the Holy Name. In the present age, 'nama-sankirtan' is the most effective way to achieve peace as it can be performed under any circumstance. In itself, it is a universal religion under which people of all sects can unite, irrespective of religion. The writer is the president of Sree Chaitanya Gaudiya Math (www.sreecgmath.org) and the World Vaishnav Association (www.wva-vvrs.org) [in moj duhovni ucitelj] |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 31.10.2003 at 11:31:51 All Glory to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga! Conditioned souls have got currents of thoughts in their minds imbibed from previous impressions of millions of births - holy thoughts and unholy thoughts. This human birth is given by Lord to fight against unholy thoughts and to enhance holy thoughts. Unless root cause of committing sin is eradicated, the aptitude to commit sin cannot be removed. The cause of sin is desire for committing sin and the cause of desire for committing sin is misconception of self, cause of misconception of self is nescience (ignorance), cause of nescience is aversion to Supreme Lord, who is All-Existence, All-Knowledge and All-Bliss. Therefore root cause of sin is aversion to Sree Krishna. So, Sree Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has said, “The conditioned souls of the world, due to forgetfulness of their relation with Supreme Lord are averse to Sree Krishna since time immemorial.” Therefore it is advised to cultivate devotional forms principally to chant the Holy Name for remembrance of Sree Krishna. We have forgotten Krishna from time immemorial, we are to undo it and for this we are to take the help of bonafide Shuddha Bhaktas. ‘Sadhan bina sadhya vastu keho nahi paye’ - Without devotional practice nobody can get the objective. After passing through 80 lacs (8 000 000) of births of different species, we have got this human birth. God was satisfied by creating human being as human being has the capacity to discriminate between eternal and non-eternal and can worship Supreme Lord who is All-existence, All-knowledge and All-bliss. This human birth is not meant for eating, sleeping, defending and mating like birds and beasts. In Srimad Bhagavatam, 9th Canto, Ved Vyasa Muni has said that Ambarish Maharaj, who was most favorite devotee of Supreme Lord Sree Krishna could remove all desires of this world gradually, by performing bhajan without deceitfulness. A conditioned soul cannot get the desired result all of a sudden. If he is sincere in his efforts, by the grace of Supreme Lord Sree Krishna and His devotees, he will be ultimately successful. --- His Divine Grace Srila Bhakti Ballabh Tirtha Goswami Maharaj All Glory to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga! Physical body is the apparent self. Appearances in the physical body is due to our ‘karma’. Real self is the eternal servant of Supreme Lord Sree Krishna. When we become averse to Sree Krishna by misuse of our relative independence, we become enveloped by the illusory energy of Sree Krishna and forget our real self. Blessed are those who have got the aptitude to serve Sree Krishna and His devotees in this precious human birth. It is not easy for a conditioned soul to give up physical desires-material aptitudes all of a sudden. It will take time to give up desires relating to gross and subtle bodies. It depends upon the intensity of sadhan. Mundane benefits are not actual benefits, as whatever we do in this world is impermanent. Relations in this world are most temporary. Efforts in this world will not produce lasting result. But what we can do, as we are entangled in these temporary mundane affairs - to make the best of bad bargain. Primary attention should be given for eternal benefit. Interests of the apparent selves should be sub-servient to the interest of the real self, otherwise ultimately we may feel frustration. All Glories to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga! Lord Krishna has said in the Bhagvat Gita (18.62) “O son of Bharat, Surrender unto Me utterly. By My Grace you will attain Transcendental peace and Supreme and eternal abode.” Complete unconditional surrender to the Lotus Feet of Supreme Lord Sree Krishna can only bestow on us eternal peace. The moment we shall submit to Sree Krishna unconditionally, our all ills and sufferings will go. ‘Sharanagati‘ is the best medicine for cure of all afflictions and the solution of all problems. False egos create false interests and by that clashing of interests we see the forest fire in this world. Supreme Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has said, if individual spirit souls can have the knowledge that they are interrelated with love relation, this forest fire of clashing of interests will stop. So Sree Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has said, Divine Love is the best and only solution of the disturbed situation of the world. That Divine Love (Prema-Bhakti) for the Supreme Lord can be cultivated by ‘Nama-Sankirtan’ –chanting of the Holy Name of Supreme Lord, viz. Krishna, Rama, Govinda, Madhava, etc. In the present age, ‘Nama-Sankirtan’ is the best medicine and effective way to achieve the summum bonum of human life as it can be performed under any sort of circumstances. Nama-Samkirtan is a universal religion under whose banner people of all sects and rank can unite. Sree Chaitanya Gaudiya Math institution is engaged in the propagation of the all-embracing doctrine of Transcendental Divine Love of Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu to counter the present trend of violence and cruelty and to bring unity of hearts amongst all irrespective of caste, creed and religion. --- His Divine Grace Srila Bhakti Ballabh Tirtha Goswami Maharaj |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by Devi on 01.11.2003 at 10:20:29 S Hare Krišno imam lepe izkušnje. Tam nekje pri 17.ih sem prvič začela se zares spraševat o bogu, če sploh je, kakšen je, zakaj ga ne čutim, če res je. Od nekih prijaznih Hare Krišnovcev sem kupila nekaj knjig in se res zavzela. Sem brala Življenje izvira iz življenja in si misla, ok, bom naredla res to, kar govori Prabhupada, bom nehala za nekaj minut dvomit, bom brala nekritično. In naenkrat me je prevzelo, neka prisotnost, življenje, sem se kar zjokala od sreče. Se mi je zdelo, da sem začutila nekaj dosti širšega in večjega od sebe, sem dojela, aha, nekaj res JE, zdaj to čutim, VEM. Sem pela mantro tisto poletje ves čas, je bil čas res neke neverjetne radosti in veselja. Potem je prišlo sčasoma vmes življenje in druge stvari... me je odneslo drugam. Sam spomini so pa lepi. Takrat sem se prvič zavedla in od takrat dalje je vse v mojem življenju drugačno... |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 03.11.2003 at 10:26:08 Devi wrote on 01.11.2003 at 10:20:29:
mogla bi se takrat se bolj poglobit v teorijo in prakso (tudi prek ostalih knjig te tematike in svetih oseb), da bi lahko ta obcutek obdrzala v vecnosti. predlagam ti da preberes se "Nauk Gospoda Chaitanye" ali "Bhagavad-gita, kakrsna je" ali pa "Pot popolnosti". Quote:
ne glede na to, da te je odneslo drugam bo tisti "vtis" ki si ga dobila takrat vecno prisoten nekje v podzavesti. po moje se ti ga splaca se bolj raziskat in vedno znova obcutit. iz majhnega semena zraste veliko trdno drevo in na njem vedno nova in sveza sladka jabolka, ampak le ce smo pripravljeni zanj primerno skbet. Goura Hari bol. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 03.11.2003 at 12:31:48 Jest sm na krišnarje naletu v obdobju, ko sem se mi je z 19. leti sesula familja. Se se klatu par mescesev na štop po tedanji jugi, totalno odtujen od vsega okrog sebe pa tud od samga sebe. V dubrovniku sem ostal cel teden glih zarad njih, sem sedel cele dneve z njimi na štengah pred cerkvijo pa dost iskerno notr padel v njihovo prepevanje. Najbrž me je k njim vlekla ena potreba, da bi spet nečemu brezpogojno pripadov, ampak me je nazaj držala ena izkušnja, da ne bi bil spet razočaran/nategnjen, tko kot sem se počutu nategnjenega od lastne familije. Sem tko kljub njihovmu magnetizmu ohranu eno distanco in se zadovolju z eno debelo buklo v angleščini, ki se je nism nikol resno lotu brat in sem jo takrat (v poznih sedemdestih) imel bolj za imidž. Od tedaj mam v stiku s krišnarji zmerom občutek, kot da me hočjo na en infantilen način potegnit v svoje okrilje. Najbolj jim to uspeva adolescenci, ko iščšeš eno svojo novo identiteto, ko ti družina ne zadošča več, ko si starševsko ljubezen nekak prerastu ampak jo še vedno pogrešaš, v partenskih odnosih pa je še nis sposeben razvit tko eksplicitno, kot je ljubezen razvidna v članih te skupnosti. Jest sem bil za ta občutenja sicer dovzeten, ampak sem se odloču ta prehod opravit strogo induvidualno, ker bremena precej na silo pa s trpljenjem pridobljene edenitete se nism bil poripraljen na tko pocen način losat in se še enakrat v varstvo nekomu/nečemu prepuščat. Če ne bi imel tko slabe izkušnje s tastrimi, bi ziher postal vsaj do prvega razočarnja aktiven krišnar. Na krišnarje sem poznej naletu še prek sošolca s FDV-ja, ki je hrat, ko sem se jest omislu familjo, angažiral v skupnosti za zavest krišne. Precej senzibilen fant, skor feminilen, je najdu zase tam skor idelen intelektualen in čustven milje. Par let poznej je prišel precej visok v tamkajšnji hirerarhiji, prevajal je knjige in postal ena avtoriteta, men je deloval čist super, skuliran in sem imel do njega kar en rešepekt, ko sem ga srečal pobritga in poslikanega v tisti oranžni halji na eni njihovi prireditvi. Tko da sem mal iz usmiljenja/razumevanja mal pa radovednosti nakupu kar nekaj slovenske literture o tej skupnosti, ki pa se je zarad osladanosti, ki jo predpostavlja čaščenje, težko lotevam brat oz. ven luščit filozofske temlje, na katerem je osnovano čaščenje krišne. Pa še ena izkušnjo moram oment. Poznam moža od moje znanke, ki je v bajti (imel je gostilno) dostrakt gostil krišnarje, ker je prek njih v zrelih letih odkril svojo religioznost. Bil je tud ene parkrat v indiji, dokler ni žena nardila tej njegovi sentimantalnosti konec, ker je zaštekala, da so se mu religiozna čustva do krišne pomešla z mesenim poželjenjem do mladih članic. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 03.11.2003 at 13:47:15 vedsko literaturo, njeno teorijo in prakso je seveda tezko razumet/obcutit brez za to potrebnih kvalifikacij in je pogosto napacno razumljena in seveda tudi lahko zlorabljena, kar se je veliko dogajal, se dogaja in se najbrz tudi bo dogajal. tudi v krogih ljudi, ki "formalno" zastopajo vedsko znanje. velikokrat vedsko znanje ljudje pomesajo z indijsko kulturo, njihovimi navadami, obicaji itd. v resnic pa se vedsko znanje (teorija in praksa) nanasa na duso, spiritualno duso (nas v cisti obliki), ki je onkraj nasega grobega in subtilnega materialnega telesa in nima z raznoraznim podnebjem, kulturo, raso, obicaji, kasto itd. nbene veze. ce se nekdo iskreno poglobi v te zadeve bo razumel o cem govorim. vedsko znanje se nanasa na vsa ziva bitja, ne glede na to v kaksni materialni pogojenosti so se znajdl. jasno pa je, da v tej pogojenosti trpimo raznorazne nadloge in da nam to ni kej prevec vsec. kaj je vzrok nasi pogojenosti in kako se ga prakticno in za vselej odpravi pa je tema vse vedske literature. za vse, ki so zainteresirani obstaja veliko knjig, ki so tudi vsakomur dostopne. ce pa koga zanima kej prakticnega glede tega pa se lahko obrne tudi name, na int-msg. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by Devi on 03.11.2003 at 18:02:42 wrote on 03.11.2003 at 10:26:08:
Saj veš, kaka sem, ob teorijah spim, če se hočem kaj naučit, se lahko samo prek izkušenj ;) Dosti sem razmišljala o Hare Krišni, se tud pogovarjala z ljudmi in me je nekaj časa celo vleklo, da bi en dan pa le zašla v njihov tempelj. Nekako pa me institucije nikoli niso privlekle, bolj sem bežala od njih, ker so me dušile. Sem se v titudovi pripovedi kar našla. Zakaj rinit v novo družino, če imaš čez glavo stare in si komaj čakal, da se najdeš kot individuum izven nje. Quote:
Se mi pa zdi, da se je marsikaj ohranilo v meni in deluje prek podobnega zavedanja, kot mu sledite Krišnovci. Čutim, da je smisel življenja čaščenje, recimo in da je to verjetno edini način ali pa eden boljših, da se približaš temu velikemu bogu, življenju, Enosti, oz kakorkoli mu že kdo reče. Ampak ne čaščenje kot posledica nekega znanja, neke poučenosti, kot sledenje edini pravi poti, ampak čaščenje kot iskren izraz srca. Čisto srce pa ne pride kot posledica pripadnosti neki instituciji, ampak je naloga, s katero se lahko (vsaj jaz) spopadaš samo sam, vsak dan znova, ker si to zares želiš. Vidva z mind-om sta za mene dovolj suverena predstavnika Krišne, zato se dostikrat tudi od vaju dosti naučim. Hvala za to! |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 04.11.2003 at 09:14:44 Devi wrote on 03.11.2003 at 18:02:42:
smisel zivljenja/obstoja nas, individualnih dus je v cascenju, zrtvovanju oz. sluzenju. zakaj? ker sluzenje je podlaga vsaki ljubezni, tko zacasni kot vecni. ljubezen je tista ki nas pomiri in tudi napolne z zadovoljstvom. res je tudi to, da je edini nacin mozen spoznanja Absolutne resnice skozi ljubezen, torej cascenje, sluzenje, predajo itd. Ta Absolutna resnica je vseprisotna, izvor vsega in je Oseba s svojimi neomjenimi imeni, obliko, lastnostmi, aktivnostmi itd. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu nam je predlagal naj se v tej zdejsni dobi (kali-yugi) posluzujemo le enega nacina zblizevanja s to Vrhovno osebo, tj. preko recitiranja njegovih svetih imen, se posebej ime Sri Krishna, v iskrenosti. Quote:
vsak od nas ima seme (potencial) ljubezni do Boga ze v sebi. treba je le precistit srce vseh ostalih sebicnih zelja, in ta ljubezen se sama manifestira od sebe, in takrat je to cascenje izraz srca, spontanosti. ampak do te spontanosti se ne da pridt kr brez predhodnega truda, tko kot se ne more nben ozdravt brez zdravljenja. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by Kali on 04.11.2003 at 12:50:48 Hare Krishna me še vedno najprej asociira na pesem iz filma Hair, tudi sama rada kdaj pa kdaj zapojem Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare, Hare.... :) Kajti tam sem prvič slišala za to... Nato pa sem zvedela za njih, ko sem začela hodit v srednjo šolo in sem jih vsakodnevno srečevala, ko so igrali na Čopovi v Lj., pa prodajali piškote in sendviče... Nikoli ne bom pozabila res dobrega koncerta Krishnovcev v ŠKUCu v Lj, uh že dolgo je tega... ;D Super je bilo. Poznam tudi kar nekaj ljudi, ki so šli živet v skupnost. Vem za dva, da sta izstopila že, za ostalimi se je izgubila sled. Ko si se ti, Aryan, pojavil na forumu me je začel mal zanimat in sem takrat prebrala knjigi Življenje izvira iz življenja, ter Pot popolnosti. Sta mi bili všeč. Zanimivi. Imela sem jih že dolgo doma, kupljeni od Krishnovcev. ;) ;D Sem duh, ki ima človeško izkušnjo. Duh je popolen, človek še ne. In dokler živim se mi zdi zelo pomembno, da uživam. Kar se le da, trpljenja je itak povsod že dovolj. Pomembno pa mi je tudi to, da se prepuščam Krishni, mu namenjam vsa dejanja, besede in misli, in da hodim po svoji poti naprej in naprej, se vsak dan česa naučim na tej poti katere namen je razsvetljenje. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 04.11.2003 at 13:20:38 Petra. wrote on 04.11.2003 at 12:50:48:
ce imas moznost prosim preberi se "Nauk Gospoda Chaitanye" in "Bhagavad-gita, kakrsna je". Quote:
ce bi bl podrobno preverla bi ugotovila kaksne "kvalitete" je to tvoje uzivanje, ce se mu sploh se lahko rece "uzivanje". ;) Quote:
za trpljenje (na splosno) obstaja vzrok, katerga mormo raziskat ali ga od nekoga izkusenejsega izvedt ter ga postopoma in za vselej odpravit. Quote:
uf, velike besede, velike besede... upam, da je v tem tud kej avtenticne in iskrene prakse. sicer pa jaz "formalno" ne pripadam tej instituciji in avtoritetam, ki propagira in prakticira nauk Gospoda Chaitanye in ki je vam v vecini poznana, ISKCON (Mendarodna skupnost za zavest Krishne), ampak neki drugi, sorodni, in ki je bolj bazirana v Indiji. njen ustanovitelj Sri Srimad Bhakti Dayita Madhava Goswami pa se je pojavil prav na danajsni lunin dan (utthan ekadashi), leta 1904 in odsel leta 1979. Znova in znova mu dajem moje najglobje in ponizno spostovanje. Goura Hari bol. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 05.11.2003 at 13:14:33 Aryan, me že dlje časa matra analizirat, na kakšni osnovi gradit t.i. trajno zadovoljstvo, ki ga širi tvoja vera. Nekaj o paradigmi, o psiholoških in filozofskih osnovah sem na raznih topikih že kakšno reku, zdej bi pa rad zadeve strnu, da bodo moje blodne racionalizacije lepo na kupu in da jih boš po svoji navadi lepo korigiral. Povod za tole pisanje je pravzaprav banalen: imam ves čas občutek, da se nekako naslajaš nad mojim trpljenjem, ki ga ustvarja špekulativni intelekt, ko si prizadeva zaštekat izkustvene paradokse življenja/eksistence. Skušam analizirat, od kod ti to veselje nad trpljenjem drugega, ki v naši kulturi, v kateri se skupnost gradi na empatiji, izpade milo rečeno brezbrižno, bolj ostro rečeno pa perverzno in sadistično. Ker če človek kaj komu pojamra, pričakuje od sočloveka izraze sočutja in solidarnosti, ne pa evforične izbruhe radosti nad tem, da on takih problemov nima (več) in da so zato zame samo umišljeni oz. plod prevare čutov in uma. Gremo naprej. Počas sem se dokopal do tega, da izhajaš iz občutja ugodja, ki da je človeku dan. Poglejva v teorijo. Pri občutenju gre za telesno stanje (ugodje ni nekaj, kar imam), ki ga doživljam v sedanjosti ( ugodje traja in je neskončno, preteklega občutenja torej ni) in je povsem razvidno ( za to, da ga doživljamo, ni potrebno nikakršno čustveno doživetje ali miselna razlaga), poleg pa je vsako občutenje čisto specifično, je svet zase ( nemogoče si je predstavljati prehod od občutenja rdeče barve do občutenja slanosti ali od občutenja žgečkanja do občutenja a mola). Občutenja so sama po sebi znotrajtelesna hermetična odzivanja prek kemijskih sporočevalcev (hormonov in nevrotransmiterjev ), ki potujejo po telesu in izzivajo čisto določene organske reakcije. V primerjavi s čuti in njihovimi povezavi z možgani gre pri kemijskem uravnavanju za arhaičen, relativno hermetičen, občutenjski sistem odzivanja na okolje. V primeru hormonov različne kemijske snovi nosijo čisto specifična sporočila po v naprej določenih poteh na naprej določena mesta in na tak način vzpostavlja relativno trajno stanje, ki se spreminja kvečjemu z življensjkimi cikli (adolecenca, starost..) Pri človeku, ki ima kompleksne možgane in pri katerem so različne ravni doživljanja med seboj prepletene, se kemijska raven notrranjega/endokrilnega dopolnjuje z delovanjem nevrotransmiterjev in receptorjev, s pomočjo katerih se med seboj povezujejo nevroni v procesih spreminjajočega odziva na okolje. Številni nevrotnsmiterji, kot npr.endofrini (naši naravni opiati) imajo prav tako pomembne vpliv na naša znotrajtelesna občutenja. Ker sta ravni čustvovanj in občutenj med seboj tesno povezani, se tudi občutenja lahko sprožijo na različne načine: še vedno znotrajtelesenih spremeb, čeprav so posledica zavestnega delovanja (ekstremna telesna stanja, ki sprožijo spremembo kemijskega dialoga v telesu in s tem spremembo očutenja, npr.dolgotrajno plesanje). Evo smo prišli teoretično do tega, da je mogoče zavestno ustvarit občutje ugodja, ki pa ga doživljamo kot avtonomno telesno stanje, ki ga občutimo kot neodvisnega od čutno/materilanega okolja (odtod občutje transcedence). |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 05.11.2003 at 13:15:17 Gremo naprej k analizi 'vpletene nezaineresiranosti' za stanje drugega, ki je posledica tako zavestno vzpostvaljenega 'nadčutnega' avtonomnega občutenja samega sebe. Z znotrajtelesnim očutenjem odgovorjamo v bistvu na vprašanje na dimenziji ugajajoče-odbijajoče. Pri bitjih s kulturo, ki poznamo tudi čustvena in/ali miselna doživljanja, pa se znotrajtelesna občutenja vprežejo na konkretne oz. pojave v okolju skozi obloženost s čustevnimi /miselimi vsebinami. Tako posredovana občutja se oblikujejo na poddimenziji lepo-grdo oz na esteskem občutju. Gre za kompleksen multidemnzionalen prostor naše duševnosti, v katerem se neposredno telesno odzivamo na kontinuumu ugajajočega in neugajajočega na občutenja na subkontinuumu lepega in grdega. Kot estetska doživlajmo tista občutenja, ki so na kotinuumu bliže občutenju ugodja, ne glede na to, ali je na substativni ravni bliže lepemu ali grdemu. Odtod navidezni 'paradoks tragedije', ki ga je prvi opisal že aristotel, da ljudje na primer uživamo tudi v opazovanju in poslušanju zgodb o ljudeh, ki so zelo nesrečni in ki grozljivo trpijo. Ne gre zato,da bi imela zgodba katarzičen učinek, ampak zato, da je doživljanje na ravni občutenja neposredovano s čustvom ali mišljenjem, da je preprosto ugajanje kot tako. Tako estetsko občutenje bi se dalo opisat kot 'neposredno distanco' ali kot 'vpleteno nezainteresiranost'. To nam omogoča,da uživamo tudi v stvareh, ki so v vsakdnjem življenju neprijetne (poleg paradoksa tragedije je drug značilen primertega ritmično gobanje in petje ob delu). Evo boljše razlage za stanje občutenja 'trajnega zadovoljstva', na katerega se je s svojim dojemanjem občutenja estetskega specilaziralo gibanje hare krišna., jest doslej nism najdu. Racionalno se ga mi drugače/boljše tud skor ne bi dalo dojet, tko da skoz to tud razumem npr. fascinaten prizor iz enga filma, v katerem so se krišnarji iz pričakovanega katastrofične konca sveta (zemljo naj bi zadel komet) naredl en estetski dogodek, ki so ga brez strahu in groze pričakli s kolektivno pesmijo in plesom. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 05.11.2003 at 13:45:56 titud wrote on 05.11.2003 at 13:15:17:
:) po moje se ti se najbl splaca sprobat proces, da bos obcutil tist kar te zanima. p.s.: obcutenja, ki so za svoj obstoj odvisna od grobega ali subtilnega materialnega telesa so nujno zacasna, torej ne morjo bit "trajna" oz. vecna. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 05.11.2003 at 15:00:07 wrote on 05.11.2003 at 13:45:56:
Tist, kar me zanima, jest ne bom nikol zvedu z občutenjem, ker z občutenjem me bo nehal zanimat. :) Trajna očutenja so tista, ki jih nobena sprememba okoliščin ne more zmotit/spremenit. Ne vidim razloga, zakaj se trajno občutje ne bi moglo ugnezdit v grobem/subtilnem materialnem telesu, če obtstaja resnična potreba prav tega grobega/subtilnega telesa po tem občutenju. Saj zato pa smo ljudje, da si ustvarjeno potrebo na tak al pa drugčen način zadovoljimo. Če je ne bi bli sposobni zadovoljit, se je ne bi imel potrebe zmislt. Zakaj bi v človeku vzbujal potrebo po trajnem zadovoljstvu, če je ne bi bli sposobni zadovoljit? Kot rečeno, krišnajrji ste se v tem izmojstrili. To mojsterstvo vam priznam ne da bi moral sam sprobat. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 05.11.2003 at 15:08:48 se zmeri ti predlagam, da sprobas proces in nehas ugibat ali je "voda reke mrzla ali topla med tem ko stojis na njeni obali". s takim pocetjem se lahko za marsikaj prikrajsujes, torej vznemirjas. Goura Hari bol. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 05.11.2003 at 15:21:30 wrote on 05.11.2003 at 15:08:48:
Hočeš rečt, da izven diskurza, ki ga vzpostvljajo vedske avtoritete in praktikanti hare krišne, na tem topiku nimaš namena debatirat? Da naj se jest neham matrat v svojmu diskurzu in s tem neham bit vir tvojga zadovoljstva? >:( :-/ :) |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 06.11.2003 at 08:30:15 titud wrote on 05.11.2003 at 15:21:30:
do neke mere se da debatirat, razlabljat, filozofirat, spekulirat itd. od nekje naprej pa se zacnejo filingi, ti pa pridejo kot rezultat prakse, ce je ta izvajana pravilno. zato sem ti tudi predlagal, da ce hoces zares spoznat, obcutit "vecno zadovoljstvo" o katerem govorijo realizirani svetniki in vedska literatura bo potrebno vlozit tud nekaj vec prakticnega truda kot le povrsinsko spoznavanje s pomocjo spekuliranja. a lahko se kako drugac ugotovis kaksnega okusa je tekocina v kozarcu pred teboj, razen tako, da jo probas? |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by ten-nej on 06.11.2003 at 09:09:40 wrote on 06.11.2003 at 08:30:15:
Seveda 8) |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 06.11.2003 at 11:11:57 wrote on 06.11.2003 at 08:30:15:
Dejva se omejit na hare krišna pa filinge, ki jih jest kao berz izkustvenga prakticiranja ne morem občutit. Pri tem gre za vprašanje, a mam jest te filinge že v seb, a mi jih mora prakticiranje šele skreirat? Jest si upam trdit, da je občutje ugodja že meni inherentno, da mi zanjga ni treba absolutno nč nardit in da je prakticirinje po vedskih navodil le skoz določeno kulturo prisvojena sposobnost/znanje, da si filinge ozavestim in jih tak način nekam 'lociram' zato, da si jih kadarkoli vpokličem oziroma da si jih trajno vzdržujem. Gre za čist podoben proces kot obstaja v t.i. produkciji materialnih dobrin, ki jih po določenih kulturno pogojenih zavestnih postopkih skreiraš zato, da bi ti z uporabo bo na vpoklic vzbujala ene občutke ogodja, po možnosti trajno (kar pa res ni možno, ker gre za vzbujanje ugodja preko čutil oz. receptorjev, ki jih ni možno trajno zadovoljit, ker delujejo na pricipu razlike v 'napetosti'). Da pa sem brez izkustvenega prakticiranja občutenjsko tkorekoč kastriran, me ne bo noben praktikant česarkoli nikol prepričal. >:( :) |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by mind on 06.11.2003 at 11:32:00 titud, valda da je feeling (npr. ljubezni) že v tebi, saj je sama tvoja/naša narava (duše) takšna ampak, res me zanima kako lahko ti občutiš (okusiš)/izkusiš sladkost tekočine v kozarcu, brez da stegneš roko in si vliješ tekočino v usta ??? LP |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 06.11.2003 at 11:38:29 titud wrote on 06.11.2003 at 11:11:57:
potencial vecnega zadovoljstva mas ze v seb (kot vsaka individualna dusa), ampak ga brez pravilne prakse ne mors v vecnosti dozivljat. Quote:
ce lahko s kaksno drugo prakso/delovanjem, kokr ga priporoca vedska literatura oz. realizirani svetniki zazivis vecno zivljenje v popolnem, neomejenem zadovoljstvu bos seveda mogu sam sprobavat in izkusat. seveda pa ti jaz glede tega ne morm nic garantirati. lahko pa ti edin iz svojih lastnih izkusenj povem, da sem tudi jaz ze marsikaj sprobal, pa je blo v koncni fazi zal neuspesno oz. premal uspesno za dokoncno izpolnitev in pomiritev. lahko mi verjames, ali pa poskusis sam, za kar mas vso pravico in tudi moznost. Quote:
zame zacasnost ali pa vecnost ni eno in isto, niti podobno ne. kot sem ti ze zgori napisu... poskusi (karkoli) in spoznaj. Quote:
niti ni potrebno ali v zelji iskrenega praktikanta cesarkoli, da bi te v svoje preprical. ponavad ti bojo le predlagal (ne silil), ker se jim bo zdel (mogoce tudi v zmoti), da si za nekaj prikrajsan. seveda pa imas ti spet moznost poskusiti karkoli ali pa ne. moznost imas poskusiti raznorazna misljenja, delovanja in seveda izkusat rezultate, ki jih dajejo. prepricaj se sam. Goura Hari bol. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 06.11.2003 at 12:26:28 mind wrote on 06.11.2003 at 11:32:00:
Kao naj ti to razložim? Tekočina v kozarcu nima v seb nobene sladkosti. Občutek slakosti mam jest v seb, ki sem si jo spozoben vzbudit s pitjem tekočine al pa tud po kašnem by-pas psihičnem sitemu, ki mi lahko vzbudi dost bolj sladkoben občutek kot bi ga mi vzbudu kozarec tekočine. Glih v tem procesu je bistvo prakticiranja hare krišna, v tem bay-pasu, ki ti sladi lajf na da bi ti blo treba sladkor fizično uživat, ker sladokrja ti lahko zamnjaka al pa boš moral počet neugodne stavri da boš prišel do njega. Hare krišna ti daje znanje in tehnika za trajno občutenje sladoskosti, ne dabi ti blo treba posegat po cukru. Ampak zarad tega npr. sladkosti življenja ti ne občutš čist nč drgač kot drug, ki rab cukrod zunaj. Hočem rečt, da je kakovost občuteja lahko enaka ne glede na način občutenja. Tle jest ne priznam nobene kakovostne hierarhije, če seveda trajnost vzamem kot količinsko lastnost in ne kakovostno. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 06.11.2003 at 12:34:30 titud wrote on 06.11.2003 at 12:26:28:
si zihr? ;) (mah kaj te to sploh sprasujem). Quote:
mogoce mas pa sam se mal premal izkusenj. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 06.11.2003 at 13:06:24 wrote on 06.11.2003 at 12:34:30:
Transcenca oz. blaženi filing breztelesnega očutenja, ki ga povzroča vzajemno učinkovanje petja/plesa ter čaščenja/posvečanja, ne more bit zato, ker je je zavestno lociran izven čustvene/miselno posredovane sfere v sfero občutenja hierahično nč višji od čustevno/miselno 'kontaminirnega' občutenja, ki je zato bolj prizemljeno, materialno pogojeno in ne-transcedetno. Če bi blo, zakaj si svoja občutenja konc koncev tko trudite čustveno in racionalno predastavit? A ni to predstavljanje prav čustevno/miselna kontamicija teh 'čistih' in transcedentnih občutij. In kako bi se nenzadnje to nedvomno zahtevno znanja in tehnike pozročanja/vzdrževanja transcedentalne blaženosti prenašale na druge drugače kot prek čustveno/misleno kontanimanicaje, ki je pravimo učenje? In kako bi bil konc koncev sam v seb sposben vzpostavt to trancedentno stanje dobrega počutja če ne bi bil sam kontaminiran s čustveno/miselno interpretacijo sveta, skoz katero se sploh lahko vskokrat spravim v blaženo stanje in se v njem vzdržujem? Torej smo tle vsi na istem nivoju, vsi mamo svoja očutja miselno/čustveno kontaminirana, in vsi v tej kontaminaciji bolj kot ne uživamo, pa če si to priznamo al pa ne. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 06.11.2003 at 13:14:06 titud wrote on 06.11.2003 at 13:06:24:
ja pol pa itak good, a ne? ;) (cemu pol jamranje, strah in stalno vznemirjenje, sploh pri osebah, ki to ze vse vejo?) Goura Hari bol. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 06.11.2003 at 13:38:47 wrote on 06.11.2003 at 13:14:06:
Ja, le zakaj? Po moje zato, ker se majo za nesrečne samo zato, ker mislijo, da imajo vsi okrog njih en recept za (trajno) srečo, samo oni ne. Ker se ne znamo lepo po domače med sabo potalžit, da smo čist ok takšni kot smo in da ni noben od nas čist nč na boljšem. Da je to edina tehnika, ki osrečuje. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 06.11.2003 at 13:45:27 titud wrote on 06.11.2003 at 13:38:47:
no, pol pa ti prakticiraj to tehniko, jaz pa bom cascenje Sri Krishne pod vodstvom realiziranih svetnikov. Goura Hari bol. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 06.11.2003 at 14:11:57 Sem te hotu samo potolažit, da nč hudga, tud če ti sri krisna pa svetniki ne bi prnesl pričakovanega očutja blaženosti. Podobno, kot jest pr teb iščem tolažbo, če se moje čustveno/mentalne kolobocije ne pokrijejo čist z mojim občutjem abusrdnosti ekistence:) |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 06.11.2003 at 14:23:55 titud wrote on 06.11.2003 at 14:11:57:
ponujat kozarec vode nekomu, ki ni zejen, ali pa se ne zaveda, da je zejen, ali pa noce priznati, da je zejen, je vec al manj izguba casa in energije, tko da... Goura Hari bol. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by mind on 06.11.2003 at 16:26:59 titud, iskreno služenje Bogu v ljubezni pomoje ni neka sladkobnostna finta, ki bi delala mojo absurdno eksistenco znosnejšo breztelesni občutki blaženosti in transcendentalna ljubezen sta dve različni stvari čisto služenje Njemu v ljubezni pomeni onkrajmaterialne (transcendentalne) aktivnosti, in tega ne moreš enačiti z blaženostjo (nedelovanjem) ob materialni osvoboditvi to transcendentalno sladkost ( ki ni materialno minljive narave) lahko okusiš/izkusiš samo na podlagi delovanja, aktivnosti kar pomeni, da je tvoj trud/delovanje/aktivnost potreben ta tvoja absurdnostna teorija pomoje še najbolj pride v poštev pri nižjerazvitih živih bitjih, kjer ne-svobodna izbira oz. ne-samozavedanje omogoča sprejetje absurdnosti na povsem naravni način če bi človeška eksistenca res bila absurdna potem pomoje ne bi bilo potrebe po samozavedanju in s tem tudi zavedanju da imamo možnost izbirat LP |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 06.11.2003 at 16:43:04 wrote on 06.11.2003 at 14:23:55:
Če ne veš, kaj človeku manjka, pol mu je brez veze karkoli ponujat. S ponujanjem čeasrkoli mu šele vzbujaš pomanjkanje po točno tem, kar mu ponujaš in ko bo to od tebe tud dobu, bo problem njegovga pomanjkanja rešen? Jebena logika. Jest samo predlagam, da drug drugemu ponudbmo nč drugega kot izraz sočutja, da je vsak tak kot je v čist v redu in da nam v bistvu nč ne fali takim kot smo. Se bojim, da častilci sri krisne ne premorejo takega elementarnega sočutja do mene, kar sem na dolg in širok razložu, zato bom zdaj počas nehal težit pa jamrat pa zgubljat enregijo. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 06.11.2003 at 16:56:03 mind wrote on 06.11.2003 at 16:26:59:
Sorry, sem ta post odkril šele, ko sem svoja prejšnjega že repalyov. Nism enaču transcedentalne blaženosti z nedejavnostjo. Naprotno, dejavnost sem predpostvljal, samu umestu sem jo v čustveno/miselno polje, ki se nč ne razlikuje od mojga delovanja, ki se rezultira v občutenju absurdne ekistence. Tud jest sem v svojem absurdu dejaven, peklenkso dejaven. ;) :) |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by mind on 06.11.2003 at 17:48:34 titud: Quote:
res je, da pri obojem operiramo/delujemo z čustveno/miselnim poljem ampak to čustveno-umsko polje lahko tudi transcendiramo, vendar le če delujemo na naš naravni, izvorni način, to je v ljubečem služenju rezultati občutenja absurdne eksistence so v tem smislu pomoje samo dokaj uspešen poskus premagovanja/sladkanja materije,medtem ko rezultati služenja Njemu v ljubezni prinaša trajno vrnitev in stopitev z izvorom sladkobe :) nisi mi odgovoril kakšno vlogo naj bi imela človeška zmožnost svobodne izbire in samozavedanje, glede aktivnosti oz. delovanja po receptu sprejetja absurdne eksistence vsaj meni se zdi boljše če se sploh nebi zavedal, da je moja eksistenca (kao) absurdna.....tako kot živali in rastline je odkritje/spoznava/zaznava absurdnosti in njeno kasnejše sprejetje nekaj drugega kot nezavedanje te absurdnosti ??? p.s. pomoje je (bi bila) razlika, da se pri živalskem ali rastlinskem nezavedanju ne pojavlja ponos ::) :-/ ;) :-* :) LP |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 06.11.2003 at 19:12:06 mind wrote on 06.11.2003 at 17:48:34:
Najt moramo soglasje okrog tega, da transcedenca kljub trans- ne po men kvalitetno nekaj boljšega in hirahično nekaj višjega, ker to vodi po mojem v en ekskluzivizem, ki mu jest ne prizavam nobene višje veljave od intelektualiziranja nasploh. Vsi smo v polju spekulacije in konc debate okrog tega. Glede samozavedanja in spoznanja absurdosti eksitence: miselno eksitence drugače kot da je nesmislena ni mogoče dojet, ker če bi bla dojeta kot smiselna, pol ne bi bla zajeta v svoji celotnosti. Misu ekstince v celot sploh ne more dojet, ker misel lahko procesira samo v polju dulazima: da ali ne, ne pa tud da in ne hkrat. Tako je misleno eksitstenco mogoče dojet le delno, čustveno v polju dobro/slabo in menatlno v plju resnično/lažno, zasto se eksitenca kot nedualnost prezentira samo kot nesmisu. S tem se eksitnce same ne zanika, samo vse čustveno/mentalno delovanje poteka v tem polju brez upanja na odrešitev. Le spoznanje nesmislnosti prizdevanja po smislu je neke vrste osvoboditev in odrerešitev, saj omogoča svobodno čustveno/mentalno dejavnost in kar s samo materialnostjo po moje nobene veze nima oz. ravno tolikišno, kot jo ima delovanje v transcedenci, ki vidi smisu v čaščenju polnosti. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by mind on 06.11.2003 at 20:44:27 titud: Quote:
ravno to spoznanje je mene vzpodbudilo k temu, da sem nehal špekulirat in raje začel poslušat tiste, ki so materialno zapletenost premagali in z svojim zgledom to tudi kažejo in učijo Vede niso produkt špekulacijskega uma ampak so transcendentalni zvok Resnice, ki se večno pojavljuje v materialnem svetu prav zaradi naše ujetosti v polje špekulacije razen nas , odvisnih individualnih bitij obstaja tud vrhovna neodvisna Oseba, katere produkt smo mi ta vrhovna Oseba je popolna, kar pomeni da se lahko pojavi kjerkoli v kakršnikoli obliki in vedno ostaja nepogojena Vede in Njegovo ime so zato istovetni (transcendentalni) Njemu očitno je pač, da se ne strinjamo glede tega kdo je naš izvor in kdo smo mi, ampak vseeno je prijetno in poučno debatirat, čeprav se mi tud vcasih zazdi da energija odteka v prazno :-/ LP |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 07.11.2003 at 08:44:02 mind wrote on 06.11.2003 at 17:48:34:
stopitev po moje ni prava beseda za sluzenje Bogu v vecnosti, transcendenci. stopitev ponavad ljudje razumejo kot zlitje dveh substanc in rezultat tega je le ena nerazlicna substanca. ponavad monisti (mayavadiji, impersonalisti...) na tak nacin razlagajo cilj. v resnic pa nasa individualnost in individualnost Boga obstajata tudi v trancendenci, onkraj materije. brez dveh razlicnih entitet ne more bit kakrsnekoli ljubezni, tudi vecne ne. res je pa to, da sta Bog in individualna dusa hkrati nerazdruzljiva (eno) kot sta ogenj (substanca) in topolota (potenca) nerazlicna a hkrati razlicna. drgac pa je boljs lizat/okusat sladkor, kot pa sladkor postati. nekateri bi radi postali Bog, ampak to je v nasprotju z njihovo vecno identiteto. ze misel, oz. upanje da "postanes" Bog je otrocja. Bog je vedno Bog in vedno vseveden, vsemogocen. nikol to ne "postane", ali se tega "zave" ker je nekoc to "pozabil". Goura Hari bol. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 07.11.2003 at 08:48:11 titud wrote on 06.11.2003 at 19:12:06:
ta ti je res mal otrocja. mogoce si ti v polju spekulacije, pa jaz tud, pa se kaksen najbrz, ampak na podlagi cesa lahko z gotovostjo zakljucmo, da so "vsi"? iz ljubosumja, iz neizkusenosti, nepoznavanja? |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 07.11.2003 at 08:51:26 mind wrote on 06.11.2003 at 20:44:27:
Dovoli, mind, da tle razčistviva pojem špekulacije. Zame špekulucija nima nobenga slabšalnega prizvoka, je pač eden od načinov sklepanja iz lastnosti enega sveta (dejanskega ali namišljenega) na lastnosti drugega sveta. Kateri so ti svetovi? Obstaja pet sevtov: primarni svet, biološki svet, nezavedni kulturni svetovi, svetovi zavesti in svetovi samozavedanja. Vsi svetovi so materialni ( 8) ::)), prvi je svet anorganske in drugi organske materije, medtemko pri drugih svetovih materialnost ni tako samoumevna. Če te materialne podlage duševnosti ne bi blo, kako kako bi sicer naša kultura in duševnost lahko vplivala na primarni in biološki svet? Iz te perspektive je zame npr. zoprestvaljanje možganov in duševnosti zgrešeno. Duševnost men kot 'materialistu' predstavlja le novo, emergentno raven materije. Gremo iz tega pogleda na svet na odnos do teh svetov. Obstaja več načinov sklepanja iz lastnosti enega (dejanskega ali umišljenega) na lastnosti drugega sveta. Zgovisnko najstarješi je animizem, ko pojavaom primarnega sveta pripisujemo lastnosti biološkega/kulturnega sveta. Iz takega pojmovanja se je razvila večina prvih religij, v katerih bog(vi) z (nad)človeškimi duhovnimi sposobnostmi animira(jo) svet. Pustmo zdej to pa pejmo na sodobne načine sklepanja enega sveta na drugega. Ti so spekulacija, specializacija, redukcija in emergenca. Mind, prepostaviva najprej, da sva oba neke vrste razikovalca, ki želiva najt način, kako uskladit razne svetove med sabo oz.pritdo resnice. Tud če se raziskovanja lotiš na način, da jih kot materialne odmisliš/odpraviš, to nardiš s pozicije svoje duševnosti, ki zanika/odpravlja vse ostale svetove razen 'najvijšjega'/transcedentega, iz katerga pri zanikanju/preseganju ostalih izhajaš. Iz takega stališča vsak predmet razikovanja povezuješ z neobsteječim pojavom (o katerem izkustveno ne veš nč drugega kot to, da je oz. da ma eno občutenjsko podlago) in iščeš v njem (skladno s svojo potrebo po racionalnem mišljenju) nedoumljivo resnico, absoluten zakon, absoltno zadovoljstvo in kar je še takih transcedentnih presežkov. Oblik takega spekulativnega iskateljstva razumu nedostopne, arhaično pojmovane resnice, v tud vzačetku novga tisočletja (ob vstopu v vodnarjevo dobo), kolikor hočeš: astrološko povezovanje planetov in usode človeka po vsaj tritisočletstarih babilosnkih zgledih;sceintološke terapevtsek skupnosti zardi osvobotive posameznikove (domnevno) višje duhovnosti; jungova psihoanaliza,ki se naslanja na t.i.kolektivno nezavedno; transcedentan meditacija kot oblika terpevtske samohipnoze, s katero naj bi doesgli višje razumevanje sebe in življenja sploh; mistični ekologizem, ki pripisuje našemu planetu lastnosti živega bitja itd. Tovrstni raziskovalni pristopi so vsi spekulativni in temeljijo bolj na sekularizaciji/merakntilizaciji religije kot pa na relevantnem iskanju znanja/modrosti v smislu ljubezni do resnice. Tud mene tak raziskovalni pristop 'vleče , se mi zdi ena osvežitev vprimerjavi z bolj omejujočimi razsikovalnimi pristopi kot so npr. mehanicistični, biologistični, materialistnični, organicizacistični, psiholgistični, kulturicistični in ostalimi. Navezava na religiozno/mistične osnove daje spelkulativnimeu pristopu eno celostno/holiotsično dimenzijo, ki pa je kljub temu v polju spekulacije in tega se je treba po moje zmerom zavedat. Tud če da je za tak pristop potrebna inicicija/posvečenje v skrivnosti, zame ostaja še vedno spekulativen pristop in ko tak le edenod možnih pogledov na svet. Taka sposbnost distance od orodja, ki se poslužejm pri razkiskovanju resnice, je zame kot samozvedujoče bitje predragocena pridobitu modernega človeka, da bi jo kljub bremenu, ki ga mi nalaga, upal zatajit s kakršnokoli inciacijo. Kot za racionalnostjo obdrajeno/obteženo samozavedojoče bitje se kljub uživanciji, ki mi jo nudi špekuliranje, ne morm tolk spozabit, da bi se v pričakovanju trajnega zadovoljstva pustu regresirat na arahično stopnjo zavedanja. Quote:
Moram priznat, da bi mi blo bolj prijetno debatirat, če se sogovorniki zavedamo skupnega polja špekulacije. V bistvu nism niti prepričan, če je izven tega polja sploh mogoče pogovarjat drgač kot na en izključujoč/pomilovalen način eksluzivnih posestnikov resnice do uboge/trpeče/nevedne raje. :-/ ??? |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 07.11.2003 at 09:05:31 wrote on 07.11.2003 at 08:48:11:
Tale res otročji izpad sem maindu zgoraj poskusu obrazložit še preden sem prebral tvoj replay, tko da debata ostaja. ;) Upam,da sem pojem špekulacije dovolj dobr obrazlužu, da bi se dal vanjga vključit vsaj vse udeležnce telih tebat, ki sem jih pod pojem 'vsi' uvrstu. :P :) |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 07.11.2003 at 09:06:25 titud, eno ciz osebno vprasanje. a ti verjames/upas, da si lahko srecen, zadovoljen in dokoncno izpolnjen brezpogojno tj. kjerkoli in kadarkoli? |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 07.11.2003 at 09:36:17 wrote on 07.11.2003 at 09:06:25:
Verajamem v to, da bi me verjetje v možnost obstoja takšega stanja ne bi nardilo nč bolj srečnega/zadovoljnega/dokončno izpolnjenega. Prej nesrečnega/nezadovljenga/sfrustriranega. Ne verjamem skratka v to, da v obstaja neko idealno stanje, ki bi si ga lahko dosegl na podlagi vere v tega in tega ter prakticiranja takih in takih tehnik. In da, priznam, da se igram z mislijo, da takšno stanje obstaja in da se ga dalo celo racionalno utemeljit in z nekimi razumskimi postopki dosčt, vendar se hkrati zavedam, da je to samu igra uma sama s sabo, da se z njo zaposli v svoji presežnosti, ko se ni prisiljen ukvarjat s procesiranjem čutno/materialnih zaznav oz. njihovih racionalizacij. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 07.11.2003 at 10:10:15 titud wrote on 07.11.2003 at 09:36:17:
ok. zakaj pa pol v vsakdanjem zivljenju delujes lih kontra temu kar si tukile napisu? tehnika=delovanje vera=zaupanje v doloceno delovanje in rezultat, ki ga daje ce je hrana, ki jo jes preslana (ali glede na tvoj okus slaba), se ob tem ne zasekiras? ko orgazem mine, se ne zasekiras? ce te kdo napade z nozem, se ne ustrasis? (ce se zasekiras, ustrasis, to pomen, da "verjames" v neko boljse, prijetnejse, varnejse/mirnejse stanje). ti je res vse eno, vseeno (in isto) tudi v praksi? Quote:
in ob tem stalno zvis v negotovosti (vznemirjenju, torej nezadovoljstvu). zakaj? ker se ne mors ciz 100% odlocit kaj bi naredu v zvezi s tem. 1. po eni strani hoces bit zadovoljen, srecen itd. (torej tudi verjames v to) in hoces neki v zvezi s tem narest, en trud vlozit. 2. po drugi strani pa mislis, da je ta zelja po sreci le neka igra uma, ki te ob doseganju srece lih ovira. kako bos to dvoje zdej sharmoniziru? ker oboje pa se ti ocitno plete po glav. jz verjamem, da ti ze dolg casa poskusas to dvoje sharmonizirat, pa me zanima kolk uspesen si bil do zdej ze pr tem izkljucno s svojim trudom? Goura Hari bol. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 07.11.2003 at 11:20:53 Jest govorim v absolutnih kategorijah, ki jih kreira um, da bi se pokril s prasko. Moj problem je um 100% uskladit/pokrit s prasko s tako kot je in ne prakse z umom kot naj bi bil. V parksi delujem zmerom 100%, samo tega s svojim umom ne zmoremo 100% pokrit, ker sploh ni narjen zato to, da bi se pokril. On funcionira na principu ustvrjanja razlike, se z njo hrani in se lahko s parkso pokrije samo ob svoji popolni umiritvi/samouikinitvi. Temu so na menjene tehnike urjenja uma, ne pa spreminjanju prakse (čeprav se dejansko praksa tud spreminja um, ker umirajnju uma sledi telesna nedejavnsot ali ponavljajoča/ritmična dejavnost in kar je še tega in se to po obratni poti pač koristi za umirajnje uma). Zato jest tud pravm, da mi v praksi ni treba ničesar spremijat, da bom srečen/zadovoljen itd. Vse kar lahko nardim je, da se v svojem umu sprejmem takšen kot sem v praski. Ne vem, zakaj bi moral začet drgač prakticirat, da bi se sprejel v umu. Kako drgač? Tko kot zapovedujejujo harekrišna tehnike, ki imajo 100% garantirano prav? |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by mind on 07.11.2003 at 11:22:22 titud, torej je Jezus špekuliral ko je govoril, da "smo vsi otroci živega Očeta " ? eksluzivisti so za mene znanstveniki in biologi, ki razlagajo "svet" z svojimi nepopolnimi in omejenimi inštrumenti in potem to svojo resnico vsiljujejo na zelo eleganten način preko družbe,kulture in šole v naš um od samega rojstva napej ekskluzivist si potemtakem pomoje tudi ti, ki ne priznavaš drugačne resnice od tvoje (sam svoj izvor) in ki si jo našpekuliral s pomočjo svojih nepopolnih instrumentov zaznave oz. prevzel od drugih nepopolnih "znanstevnikov", le da je tvoja resnica pač nekoliko "trpeča" in ne obljublja večnega zadovoljstva in miru |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 07.11.2003 at 11:57:51 titud wrote on 07.11.2003 at 11:20:53:
najbrz res ni potrebe po kakrsnikoli spremembi v misljenju in delovanju, dokler si zadovoljen in izpolnjen s tistim kar imas. Quote:
avtenticne in pravilno izvajane "Hare Krishna tehnike" (delovanje), so v skladu s tvojo vecno naravo/identiteto, in ni to nic nenaravnega. vse ostale tehnike/delovanja, ki izhajajo iz misidentifikacije sebe (zmotnega poistovecanja) z materijo (grobo in fino/subtilno) so nenaravne in v koncni fazi prinasajo le trpljenje. Goura Hari bol. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 07.11.2003 at 12:35:12 wrote on 07.11.2003 at 11:57:51:
Se po svoje strinjam. Nobeno prakticiranje ti ne bo prinesl večjega zadovoljstva od tega kot ga premoreš. Če pa ga ne premoreš, pol se v bistvu lahko lotiš katerekoli tehnike in vsaka je dobra, če ti le prinese več zadovoljstva. Lestvica je od tle naprej navzgor čist odprta do popolnega, ki pa spet točn tako in čist nč večje, kot ga pač lahko premoreš. To je zame edino merilo zadovljstva, drugih absulitnih meril jest ne prizanvam. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 07.11.2003 at 12:45:25 mind wrote on 07.11.2003 at 11:22:22:
Zihr se sam zase eklsuziven, ampak jest tud od vsakega drugega pričakujem, da bo zase enak ekskluziven. To nas nč ne ovira al pa odvezuje odtega, da bi med sabo solidaliziral v trpljenju, ki si ga vsak zadaja s takim ekslkuzivizmom. Jest sem zmerom za take vrste razredno solidarnost. Je blo že ničkolk poskusov, da bi se breme tega privat eklustivizma prenesl na kakšno ekluzivno skupnost, mapak za take vrste odrešenja me je pač težko navdušit. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by mind on 07.11.2003 at 13:14:56 titud: Quote:
jaz iščem znanje, ne ekskluzivnosti od mene ne moreš pričakovat ekskluzivnosti, ker jemljem znanje od drugih ekskluzivistov oz. avtoritet in preverjam in poskušam udejanjit na sebi to njihovo ekskluzivnost ampak pri tem ne gre za zatekanje ali odrekanje iz lastnega polja špekulacije v špekulativna polja ekskluzivistov, ker te avtoritete katerim sledim svoje znanje ne črpajo oz. pridobivajo na podlagi lastne ekskluzivnosti ampak naravne vseobsegajoče avtoritete če me ti ekskluzivisti zavajajo in mi vsiljujejo lastno špekulativno ekskluzivnost pa bo tako ali tako pokazal čas LP |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 08.11.2003 at 11:28:05 mind wrote on 07.11.2003 at 13:14:56:
Noben te ne zavaja, vsak ma zase zihr prav. Nima pa noben prav zate. Lahko te učijo, kako teb prit do lastnega prav, ampak pri tem nikol be morejo trdit, da je zate karkoli narobe. Tega ne more za drugega noben nardit, vsak mora zase špeulirat pa za svoje špekuacije rizik nosit. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 09.11.2003 at 12:02:03 titud wrote on 08.11.2003 at 11:28:05:
kaj pa ce obstaja univerzalno prav in univerzalno narobe za vsa ziva bitja? Vede in realizirani svetniki pravijo da ja, hkrati pa priznavajo, da se detajli znotraj tega razlikujejo za vsakega posameznika. univerzalno prav za vsa ziva bitja (nas), ki so delcek ene izmed potenc/energij Boga, ki je izvor in "upravljalec/gospodar" vseh svojih energij je, da Mu vecno iz ljubezni sluzijo. univerzalno narobe pa je, da so Mu nenaklonjeni (za kar imajo pravico, ki jim je tudi dana od Boga). Bolj ko smo Bogu naklonjeni in Mu sluzimo, bolj smo lahko zadovoljni in mirni hkrati. v nasprotnem primeru pa smo stalno v trpljenju in vznemirjenju. Goura Hari bol. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 10.11.2003 at 08:19:09 wrote on 09.11.2003 at 12:02:03:
V čem je po moje jeba takih sklicevalnja na unevrzalni prav/narobe v svetih spisih? Po moje v tem, da so sveti spisi sami že posledice dvoma v kategorične religozne resnice, ki so bile do pojava pisne kulture abosultno veljavne v določeni skupnsti. Pojav pisne kulture je ustno in obredno vzdrževanje skupne resnice, ki je hkrati tudi individualna resnica, že s svojim pojavom postavu pod vprašaj. Že s s tem, da so bile resnice zapisane, so bile podane vse možnosti za induvidualno in s tem 'napačno' tolmačanje, zato so sveti spisi v bistvu spisek groženj in prispodob, kaj se lahko posmezniku zgodi, če jih bo interpretiral 'po svoje' in s tem 'napačno'. Obsojenost na trpljenje, življenje v prevari in grožnja pogubljenjem so tako temljna vsebina svetih spisov, ki jim je tako vsebino narekovalo dejstvo, da so pisni, torej spisi. Tko ni čudno, da so spisi nastali ob velikih anemičnih/katastrofalnih dogodkih za določenos skupnost, tko se vedah bog razodeva v veliki bitki, sveto pismo pa je itak polno eksodusov in vseh možnih ogrožanj judovske skupnosti, ki so svoj prvi pisni akt tako dobili v obliki desetih zapovedi sredi največje moralne krize. Vedske pesnitve so tako kot knjige stare zaveze v bistvu že začetek konca absolutnih verskih resnic, so posledice posamično in koletivnega izraženega dvoma v te resnice in ne vir absolutniih/univerzalnih resnic, kot si to mi zdaj napačno predstavljamo. Dokler so res delovale, dolkler so bile res integralni vskega posmeznika v s tem tud skupnosti, jih sploh ni blo treba zapisat. Sveti spisi so v bistvu nekrolog, en nostalgičen spomin nad nečim, kar je blo včasih živo delujoče in vseprežemajoče. Z zapisnamim je do tega kljub pesniški ali epski/literani obliki in simbolni veljavi vzpostavljena ena racionalna distanca, ki jo vsem pravorenim interpretom in čuvajem absoltnih resnic navkljub kot take ni mogoče zabrisat. V tem smislu so sveti spisi neke vrste kolektivna špekulacije s čist podobno veljavo kot vsaka naša osebna špekulacija, pa naj se sklicuje nanje al pa na karkoli drugega. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 10.11.2003 at 08:44:21 ...naj praksa pokaze svoje... Goura Hari bol. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 10.11.2003 at 09:07:50 wrote on 10.11.2003 at 08:44:21:
Tle smo omejen na pisno komunikacijo. Ne moreva delit praktične izkušnje, kot bi jo lahko na podlagi petja/plesa in drug praktičnih oblik čaščenja, katere zapovedujeujejo sveti spisi in njihovi pooblaščenci. Tle sva oba v polju špekulacije in ti si izbral to polje, ne jest. Ostan znotraj njega, da bo komunikacija možna, saj je konc koncev špekulacija stvar izbire, ki bi jo praksa morala tud pokrivat, če je naj bo pravica do napake tud legitimna osebna izbira in kot taka zapisana v svetih spisih. Sem že zgoraj napisal, da je po moje izvor napačne prakse predvsem v tem, da so sveti spisi spisi in ne npr. ustno izročilo, ki avtoriteto neposredno povezuje z glasom izgovorjenega. Zato so interpreti vedno avtoritativnejši od spisov, na katere se v svoji avtoriteti sklicujejo. Zato je v končni fazi le notranji glas vsakmu posamezniku lahko najvišja avtoriteta. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 10.11.2003 at 09:37:43 titud wrote on 10.11.2003 at 09:07:50:
sveti spisi in verodostojna avtoriteta (realizirana oseba) sta v popolnem soglasju en z drugim. Quote:
jaz ne bi reku da so avtoritativnejsi, in tudi oni tega nikol tega ne trdijo. je pa res, da direktni govor realizirane osebe naredi velik vecji vtis na poslusalca in s tem tudi vzbudi vero v svete spise, njihov teoretski koncept, pripadajoco prakso in koncni cilj/rezultat te prakse, ki se ga lahko do neke mere tud obcuti in zazna v njegovi druzbi. ponavadi je to dovolj za zaupanje, ki vodi kasneje v osebno prakticiranje. Quote:
vec glasov lahko prihaja iz "notranjosti", ampak ne vodijo nas vsi k nasemu vecnemu dobrobitu. Goura Hari bol. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by titud on 10.11.2003 at 11:39:43 wrote on 10.11.2003 at 09:37:43:
Ker sveti spisi so spisi ravno zato, ker predredpostvljajo mojo nerelizironst, zmotno identifikacijo, izvirni greh in kar je še tega. Pred obstojem svetih spisov se kaj takega sploh ni moglo prepostvlajt, saj bil moj notranji glas enak božjemu brez sence dvoma. Sveti spisi so posledica dejstva, da se je moj notranji glas razšel z božjim, so posledica shizofrene razceplejnosti v človeku, so neke vrste 'recept', kako to shizofrenijo odpravit. Odpravit na na način, da notranji gals utišaš in prisluhneš božjemu, ki se kaže skoz takšenga al drugačnega pooblaščenega preroka, mesijo, guruja in kar je tega. Samorealizacija po svetih spisih je možna tako samo skoz konkreten glas, npr. hare krišna, katerga se ponotranji oz. sinhronizirna z glasom v tebi. To nardi konc shizofreni razcepljenosti glasov v tebi, edino na ta način spet lahko odrešijo sveti spisi in te 'realizirajo'. Jasno da edino oni, saj so ti tovrstno shizofrenijo pozročl. Zame so religije svojo poslanstvo opravle s pojavom pisne kulture, vse od prvih spisov naprej je samo še agonija oz. praspomin na čase, ko še ni blo dvojnosti božjega in obsebnega glasu. Vse prave enosti se od tle vzpostvljajo samo še na induvidulnem mističnem nivoju, ki pa vsako zase svete spise po svoje negira, ne pa potrjuje. Zato so bli v pisni zgodovini pravi mistiki bodisi heretiki bodisi reformatorji bodisi puščavniki bodisi revolucionarji bodisi kriminalci bodosi norci.... |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 10.11.2003 at 11:54:39 avtenticni sveti spisi in govor realiziranih svetnikov so pasivni in aktivni medij skozi katerega Bog govori nam, "vznemirjenim". le ce lahko iskreno prisluhnemo, lahko spoznamo njihovo vrednost. Goura Hari bol. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 11.11.2003 at 09:13:35 How to Find Truth Excerpts from the Holy Biography of His Divine Grace Nityalila-pravista Om Visnupada Paramahamsa 108 Sri Srila Bhakti Dayita Madhava Gosvami Maharaj Srila Bhakti Dayita Madhava Gosvami Maharaja is the Spiritual Preceptor of His Divine Grace Sri Srila Bhakti Ballabh Tirtha Maharaja, who related these excerpts originally in Bengali. A full English edition of this biography will be available from GOKUL in the near future. In this text, the title "Srila Gurudeva" refers to Srila Bhakti Dayita Madhava Gosvami Maharaja. Photo: Nityalila-pravista Om Visnupada Paramahamsa 108 Sri Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada, founder of Sri Gaudiya Math. It was upon His request that His disciple Srila Bhakti Dayita Madhava Gosvami went to speak with Dr. Ramana. Srila Gurudeva had a divine ability to get to the root of a question and to respond immediately with correctness born of expertise. He had a remarkable capacity for deftly handling persons fond of modern arguments, utilizing the very logic and examples of those with whom He was debating. Thus, whoever came near Him could not escape the influence of His charismatic personality. Those who have heard Him speak may recall the examples He cited while dwelling on Harikatha (topics about the Divine Lord). The following incident is referred to for the sake of those who have not had the good fortune to have been personally present. In 1930, at the Sri Gaudiya Math at Bag Bazaar, the annual month-long celebration of Sri Krishna Janmastami (appearance day of Lord Krishna) was being held. On each day, a different renowned personality would preside over the gathering. Some students of the famous scientist (dobil je nobelovo nagrado tud) Dr. C.V. Ramana would attend these meetings to listen to the learned Svamijis. On one occasion, they wished to know from Srila Prabhupada (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati) why such an internationally famous figure such as Dr. Ramana had not been invited to preside at this function. Srila Prabhupada replied that He had no objection whatsoever and cordially decided to extend an invitation to the great scientist. Srila Prabhupada asked our Gurudeva to go and offer the invitation personally. Srila Gurudeva went to Dr. Ramana's house, but he was not at home. His wife employed a bearer to take Srila Gurudeva to the laboratory on Circular Road, where Srila Gurudeva and Dr. Ramana met on the first floor. Dr. Ramana was engaged in research in the corner of a large room. Since Dr. Ramana was not conversant in either Bengali or Hindi, the dialogue took place in English. Upon being asked by Dr. Ramana, Srila Gurudeva explained the reason for His coming. Having heard the reason, the scientist said, "I do not honor your 'kesta-bistu.' I will not give credence to anything that cannot be perceived by the senses and is fanciful by nature. Time is of great value to me. I am, however, willing to go to any conference which deals with science or education." Srila Gurudeva: "Your students regularly attend our programs at Bag Bazaar Gaudiya Math. It is they who want you to preside over a session. Srila Prabhupada has instructed me to invite you. Please agree to our request." Dr. Ramana: "Can you show me your God? If you can, then I will go." Srila Gurudeva: "I cannot see anything beyond that wall, but would it be truthful to say that there is nothing beyond it?" The room in which they spoke had no windows. There were only walls, behind one of which stretched North Calcutta. Dr. Ramana: "You, perhaps, cannot see. But I will be able to see with the help of an instrument." Srila Gurudeva: "There is a limit to the power of any instrument. You may be able to see as far as that power can take you, but does this mean that there is nothing beyond the limitations of the instrument?" Dr. Ramana: "Let it be. I will not give my time. I will not dwell on anything that is not within the purview of my bodily sense experience. I ask you again, can you show me God? If you can, only then will I spare my time." Srila Gurudeva: "You have arrived at what you consider to be a scientific truth. What will be your response if your students demand that you demonstrate proof of your conclusions as a condition for accepting you as their teacher?" Dr. Ramana: (emphatically) "I shall convince them of the truth!" Srila Gurudeva: "First, convince them of the truth, and then teach them?" Dr. Ramana: "No, they will have to follow the same path of inquiry that I have followed. First, they will be required to study this subject in their Bachelor's program, and later in their Master's program. They must also work under me for five years. Then they will have realized the correct conclusion." Srila Gurudeva: "Do not the great saints and sages of Bharata (old India) say the same things that you have said? Follow the path that they have followed to realize Atma-Paramatma-Bhagavan (soul, Supersoul, God) and find out for yourself whether or not God can be realized. You cannot impart your realizations to your students at the very beginning. They must follow a specific course. Thus, follow the path meant for God realization and experience the results for yourself. Try first and then negate it if you must, but is it wise to negate something from the very onset without even trying it?" Dr. Ramana did not immediately reply. After some time he said: "I do not know anything about Krishna. What will I say at such a gathering? Would it not be better to invite someone who has knowledge of the subject?" |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by mind on 12.11.2003 at 14:34:27 en odlomek iz "Prayers by the Personified Vedas" (http://www.krsnabook.com/ch87.html) namenjen predvsem predstavnikom/zagovornikom neosebne Absolutne resnice, v lahko razumljivi angleščini King Pariksit inquired from Sukadeva Gosvami about a very important topic in understanding transcendental subject matter. His question was, "Since Vedic knowledge generally deals with the subject matter of the three qualities of the material world, how then can it approach the subject matter of transcendence, which is beyond the approach of the three material modes? Since the mind is material and the vibration of words is a material sound, how can the Vedic knowledge, expressing by material sound the thoughts of the material mind, approach transcendence? Description of a subject matter necessitates describing its source of emanation, its qualities and its activities. Such description can be possible only by thinking with the material mind and by vibrating material words. Although Brahman, or the Absolute Truth, has no material qualities, but our power of speaking does not go beyond the material qualities. How then can Brahman, the Absolute Truth, be described by your words? I do not see how it is possible to understand transcendence from such expressions of material sound." The purpose of King Pariksit's inquiring was to ascertain from Sukadeva Gosvami whether the Vedas ultimately describe the Absolute Truth as impersonal or as personal. Understanding of the Absolute Truth progresses in three features--impersonal Brahman, Paramatma localized in everyone's heart and, at last, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Krsna. The Vedas deal with three departments of activities. One is called karma-kanda, or activities under Vedic injunction which gradually purify one to understand his real position; the next is jnana-kanda, the process of understanding the Absolute Truth by speculative methods; and the third is upasana-kanda, or worship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and sometimes of the demigods also. The worship of the demigods recommended in the Vedas is ordered with the understanding of the demigods' relationship to the Personality of Godhead. The Supreme Personality of Godhead has many parts and parcels; some are called svamsas, or His personal expansions, and some are called vibhinnamsas, the living entities. All such expansions, both svamsas and vibhinnamsas, are emanations from the original Personality of Godhead. Svamsa expansions are called visnu-tattva, whereas the vibhinnamsa expansions are called jiva-tattva. The different demigods are jiva-tattva. The conditioned souls are generally put into the activities of the material world for sense gratification; therefore, as stated in the Bhagavad-gita, to regulate those who are very much addicted to different kinds of sense gratification the worship of demigods is sometimes recommended. For example, for persons who are very much addicted to meat-eating, the Vedic injunction recommends that after worshiping the form of the goddess Kali and sacrificing a goat (not any other animal) under karma-kanda regulation, the worshipers may be allowed to eat meat. The idea is not to encourage one to eat meat, but to allow one who is persistent to eat meat under certain restricted conditions. Therefore, worship of the demigods is not worship of the Absolute Truth, but by worshiping the demigods one gradually comes to accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead in an indirect way. This indirect acceptance is described in the Bhagavad-gita as avidhi. Avidhi means not bona fide. Since demigod worship is not bona fide, the impersonalists stress concentration on the impersonal feature of the Absolute Truth. King Pariksit's question was, which is the ultimate target of Vedic knowledge--this concentration on the impersonal feature of the Absolute Truth or concentration on the personal feature? After all, both the impersonal and the personal features of the Supreme Lord are beyond our material conception. The impersonal feature of the Absolute, the Brahman effulgence, is but the rays of the personal body of Krsna. These rays of the personal body of Krsna are cast all over the creation of the Lord, and the portion of the effulgence which is covered by the material cloud is called the created cosmos of the three material qualities--sattva, rajas and tamas. How can persons who are within this clouded portion called the material world conceive of the Absolute Truth by the speculative method? In answering King Pariksit's question, Sukadeva Gosvami replied that the Supreme Personality of Godhead has created the mind, senses and living force for the purpose of sense gratification in transmigration from one kind of body to another, as well as for the purpose of allowing liberation from the material conditions. In other words, the senses, mind and living force can be utilized for sense gratification and transmigration from one body to another or for the matter of liberation. The Vedic injunctions are there just to give the conditioned souls the chance for sense gratification under regulative principles, and thereby also give them the chance for promotion to the higher conditions of life; ultimately, if the consciousness is purified, one comes to his original position and goes back home, back to Godhead. The living force is intelligent. One therefore has to utilize his intelligence over the mind and the senses. When the mind and senses are purified by the proper use of intelligence, then the conditioned soul is liberated; otherwise, if the intelligence is not properly utilized in controlling the senses and mind, the conditioned soul continues to transmigrate from one kind of body to another simply for sense gratification. Another point clearly stated in the answer of Sukadeva Gosvami is that the Lord created the mind, senses and intelligence of the individual living force. It is not stated that the living entities themselves were ever created. Just as the shining particles of the sun's rays are always existing along with the sun, the living entities exist eternally as parts and parcels of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The conditioned souls, although eternally existing as part of the Supreme Lord, are sometimes put within the cloud of the material concept of life, in the darkness of ignorance. The whole Vedic process is to alleviate that darkened condition. Ultimately, when the senses and mind of the conditioned being become fully purified, he then comes to the original position, called Krsna consciousness, and that is liberation. In the Vedanta-sutra, the first sutra, or code, questions about the Absolute Truth. Athato brahma-jijnasa: What is the nature of the Absolute Truth? The next sutra answers that the nature of the Absolute Truth is that He is the origin of everything. Whatever we experience, even in this material condition of life, is but an emanation from Him. The Absolute Truth created the mind and senses and intelligence. This means that the Absolute Truth is not without mind, intelligence and senses. In other words, He is not impersonal. The very word "created" means that He has transcendental intelligence. For example, when a father begets a child, the child has senses because the father also has senses. The child is born with hands and legs because the father also has hands and legs. Sometimes it is said, therefore, that man is made after the image of God. The Absolute Truth is therefore the Supreme Personality, with transcendental mind, senses and intelligence. When one's mind, intelligence and senses are purified of material contamination, one can understand the original feature of the Absolute Truth as a person. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by kreden. on 22.12.2003 at 06:54:45 Patram puspam phalam toyam. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by kreden. on 22.12.2003 at 06:56:56 Yujyate 'nena durghatesu karyesu. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by kreden. on 22.12.2003 at 06:58:17 Yad-bhisa vatah pavate. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by kreden. on 22.12.2003 at 06:59:42 Etasya va aksarasya prasasane gargi surya-candramasau vidhrtau tisthata etasya va aksarasya prasasane gargi dyav-aprthivyau vidhrtau tisthatah. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by kreden. on 22.12.2003 at 11:55:16 wrote on 29.10.2003 at 11:50:42:
Aryan Zavestni Krsne razmišljajo samo o Krsni in Mu služijo, ne da bi kdaj koli zašli s poti. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by kreden. on 23.12.2003 at 07:36:14 Tisti, ki vdano služijo Vsevišnji Božanski Osebnosti, se postopoma osvobodijo posledic vseh svojih grehov: tako posledic, ki so že v obliki sadov, kakor tudi tistih, ki so komaj pognale, in tistih v obliki semen. Vdano služenje ima torej zelo veliko očiščevalno moč. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by kreden. on 23.12.2003 at 07:39:18 Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santah sadaiva hrdayesu viloka-yanti. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by mind on 23.12.2003 at 09:18:34 kreden: Quote:
kreden, mene zanima če ti iskreno slediš procesu predenaga služenja Njemu (oz. poskušaš po svojih zmožnostih), al se samo zafrkavaš oz. je to bolj tvoje pisanje mišljeno ironično ? |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by mind on 23.12.2003 at 13:52:40 kreden: Quote:
ok |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by t on 25.12.2003 at 11:11:09 wrote on 23.12.2003 at 19:57:32:
Sonce ni zmeraj na istem mestu - tudi naše osončje se premika po Rimski cesti in Rimska cesta po Vesolju. Tega, da se Sonce pojavlja in izginja pa niso "krivi" naši nepopolni čuti, temveč gibanje našega planeta. bum Šiva bum Šankara! |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by mind on 25.12.2003 at 13:21:18 t: Quote:
"zdi" pa se nam/ti tako, kot da izgine, ceprav v resnici nikoli ne izgine, ne ? podobno kot sonce tudi Bog vedno "je", le da ga mi zaradi naše neiskrenosti in nenaklonjenosti Njemu, ne moremo občutit oz. videt ampak obstajajo tud takšni, ki so Mu popolnoma predani, in Ga lahko občutijo in tudi vidijo ampak sonce je za razliko od Boga neosebno, kar pomeni, da se On za razliko od sonca lahko "prikaže" po Svoji volji "voljan" pokazat se nam, pa je takrat, ko smo tudi mi "voljni", spoznat Ga če jaz hočem spoznat nekoga, ki je "višje" od mene npr. predsednika ZDA, lahko to dosežem šele po njegovi volji, in ne izključno po lastni volji |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by t on 25.12.2003 at 13:37:05 mind wrote on 25.12.2003 at 13:21:18:
"spoznati" - Buša poznam, pa čeprav ga nočem - po njegovi volji. ::) |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by mind on 25.12.2003 at 22:56:32 t: Quote:
ko ga boš hotel "osebno" spoznati, boš naletel na problem ki sem ga zgoraj omenjal to pomeni, da izključno tvoj lasten trud/volja ne bo dovolj, da bi ga spoznal, ampak boš potreboval njegovo privoljenje/voljo ni problem v "bušu", ampak v nas in v naši neponiznosti oz. nepriznavanju podrejenosti...ceprav ce pogledamo vsaj malo iza "materialnih" in "darwinističnih"okvirjev , lahko vidimo v kako podrejeni/relativni/pogojeni/odvisni vlogi pravzaprav smo zanikanje podrejenosti in postavljati sebe za "boga" je delovanje proti svoji naravni izvorni identiteti, ki je služenju Bogu v ljubezni |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by kreden on 03.01.2004 at 16:47:37 Bhakte neprestano služijo Vsevišnjemu Gospodu. Gospod pozna miselnost živega bitja, ki poskuša postati zavestno Krsne, ve, kako iskreno je, in mu daje inteligenco, da bi lahko v družbi bhakt razumelo znanost o Krsni. Pogovori o Krsni imajo veliko moč, in srečnež, ki jim prisostvuje ter poskuša usvojiti znanje, zagotovo napreduje na poti duhovnega spoznavanja. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by kr_eden on 04.01.2004 at 22:59:26 Poslušanje in petje o Gospodu, spominjanje in čaščenje Gospoda, služenje in posvečanje molitev Gospodu, izpolnjevanje Gospodovih ukazov, prijateljevanje z Gospodom in izročitev vsega Gospodu. Človek, ki se posveti tem devetim oblikam vdanega služenja, razvije duhovno zavest ali zavest Krsne. Ko tako odstrani iz svojega srca vse materialne nečistoče, lahko razume znanost o Krsni. Ni dovolj, če vemo le, da živo bitje ni materialno. To je lahko sicer začetek duhovnega spoznavanja, poznati pa moramo tudi razliko med dejavnostmi telesa in duhovnimi dejavnostmi tistega, ki se je prenehal enačiti s telesom. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by kr_eden on 04.01.2004 at 23:21:20 Nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhu-tale srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namine namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarine. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by aryan on 12.03.2004 at 13:03:17 All Glory to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga! Supreme Lord Sree Krishna says in the Gita, 6.40 — ‘na hi kalyana-krt kascid durgatim tata gacchati’. A sincere soul will never be deceived. A shuddha bhakta – pure devotee can never have the aptitude to enjoy or renounce. Supreme Lord Sree Krishna is the only Enjoyer and Master of all sacrifices. He is the only ‘Purusha’ (Supreme Person). As we are not masters and enjoyers, we cannot enjoy or renounce. We are the parts of the potency of Supreme Lord Sree Krishna, so naturally we are to be dominated by Supreme Lord Sree Krishna. Finite atomic animated beings of the world (jivas), by the misuse of their relative independence, when become averse to Sree Krishna, are enveloped by the illusory energy of Supreme Lord consisting of three primal qualities— Sattva, Rajah and Tamah— and are hurled down in this world. As they misconceive themselves as enjoyers of this world, they pass through cycles of births and deaths and suffer severe threefold afflictions. An actual master can enjoy or give up. As jivas are not masters, they cannot enjoy or give up. The spirit of enjoying and the spirit of giving up are unnatural. They are eternal servants — their only duty is to serve. As example may be given here of Indian family-life. In India, when a chaste woman is married to a chaste man, that chaste woman, according to Indian social custom, belongs to that chaste man and even changes her family-descent from parents to husbands. That husband is the owner of house, property as well as his wife. If that wife prepares many good dishes for her husband from the articles belonging to the husband and after preparing good palatable dishes, says to the husband, “I am contributing these to you”. This sort of ego of contribution is wrong and will be ridiculous. Our gross body and subtle body being the outcome of material potency (Apara Potency) of Supreme Lord Sree Krishna and our real self, being the outcome of the spiritual energy (Para Potency) of Supreme Lord Sree Krishna, both belong to Sree Krishna. As my potency works for me, Supreme Lord’s potency will also work for Him. By serving Krishna with all His articles in proper way, we can get the highest objective — Love for Sree Krishna. So service of Krishna is natural and all else are unnatural. --- His Divine Grace Srila Bhakti Ballabh Tirtha Goswami Maharaj |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by mind on 07.04.2004 at 11:16:47 Contemporary Preaching: "Nama-dharma" by Swami B.V. Tripurari An article based on the Sanga CD, 'Nama-Dharma,' recorded July 11, 2001, published in Sripada B.V. Tirtha Maharaja's new magazine at his request. We have all heard that kirtana--singing the names of God--is very efficacious for Kali-yuga. This is not merely a sectarian statement from our particular sect, but rather Caitanya Mahaprabhu's emphasis on universal principles regarding the efficacy of sound and the divinity of God's name, principles acknowledged in both the religious and secular worlds. If we look at how the name of God is thought of in all religious traditions and how sound is important to us in everyday life, then we can better appreciate the universality of the precept that Caitanya Mahaprabhu sought to drive home and make the central focus of his mission, and if we look deeply into Mahaprabhu's emphasis, we will also find another universal principle, love's power to conquer all. In Mahaprabhu's teaching, this includes even God Himself. Sound is something that the modern technological world hasn't exploited to a large extent in comparison to the extent that it has exploited for its purposes fire, water, and earth. Perhaps this is yet to come, because it should be obvious that the power potential of sound in tremendous. Our mind, for example, in a very basic sense functions in terms of acceptance and rejection--sankalpa-vikalpa--and each of these is driven by sound. Sound helps our mind to put thoughts into ideas as well as to dismantle them. So the entire mental system of every individual is very much affected by what one hears and what one speaks. Everyone knows that in a military campaign if we can take over the sound waves we can control the masses. When the invaders come, one of their main objectives is to capture the communications systems, the sound waves. In many practical ways we can understand the importance of sound in our lives, although we probably do not think about this very much. Caitanya Mahaprabhu, however, understood the reach of the influence of sound very well. The Vedic rsis also thought about it deeply. The Vaisnavas say that seeing is really about hearing. Darsana, seeing, is related to hearing. It is said that the Vaisnava sees with his ears because his vision is guided by the sounds of the scripture. According to the Vedic scripture's metaphysic, the entire material world is a product of sound. The rsis considered that the world comes from sound, and that material existence can also be retired by sound. Vedanta-sutra concludes with the words anavrittih sabda anavrittih sabda. This means that going beyond material existence, one never returns. Why is this so? Because of the word, because of the sabda, the sound, the sruti pramana or scriptural evidence which says as much. This sound, the scriptural evidence, is difficult to understand. It works on four levels. In Srimad Bhagavatam it is stated sabda-brahma su-durbodham pranendriya-mano-mayam ananta-param gambhiram durvigahyam samudra-vat "The spiritual sound of the Vedas is very difficult to comprehend. It manifests within the life air, the senses, and the mind. This Vedic sound is unlimited and unfathomable, just like the ocean." (SB 11.21.36) The Vedic sound is divided into four phases, three of which are situated within the living entity. Only the fourth division is externally manifested as speech. Even this fourth phase of Vedic sound is very difficult to understand. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura explains these divisions as follows. The prana phase of Vedic sound, known as para, is situated in the adhara-cakra; the mental phase, known as pasyanti, is situated in the area of the navel, on the manipuraka-cakra; the intellectual phase, known as madhyama, is situated in the heart area, in the anahata-cakra. The manifest sensory phase of Vedic sound is called vaikhari. Such Vedic sound comprehends all vital energies within the universe and beyond and is thus undivided by time or space. We can only hope to understand the scope of Vedic wisdom through submissive hearing of its sounds, and we must hear repeatedly from the proper source. Hearing and chanting the Vedic sounds repeatedly will create a spiritual impression on our consciousness leading to comprehensive understanding of the nature of reality. We are all moving in the world based on certain impressions. These impressions are called samskaras. If I take a stone and I rub a rope across it, you won't see anything at first, but if I do that for a long time, then the rope will start to make an impression on the stone. Over time repeated impressions make us prone towards one thing or the other. Impressions from previous lives cause us to move in a particular way, to have a particular tendency, to appreciate a particular type of music, and so forth. . . . |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by mind on 07.04.2004 at 11:17:21 By the influence of Vedic sound gradually two things happen: our previous samskaras are cleared, and a certain impression is created whereby we can see clearly. At the time of spiritual initiation an impression--a samskara--for bhakti is created. Then to nourish that impression, instruction is given with considerable emphasis on repetition of the name of God. Among Vedic sounds the name of God has been given emphasis. Rupa Goswami has stated this in the first verse of his Namastakam, nikhila-sruti-mauli-ratna-mala. The root of the sruti, the core that comprises the essential Upanisads, has been compared to a garland of gems, and these gems are giving off light. Where are they shining that light? On the name of Holy Name of Krsna. The Vedas are very broad in their scope of knowledge and comprised of a jungle of sounds. On which sounds shall we focus our attention? Of all sounds, the sound consisting of the name of God is most efficacious, and according to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, of all God's names Krsna-nama is most glorious. The religious world is not unfamiliar with the idea that the name of God has power. The Greek term "theology" was originally intertwined with the divinity in the names of God. In our times, theology has come to mean a kind of divine science, the logic (logica) of divinity (theo). But previously it was used in relation to names of gods. The Greeks had many gods, and they had a particular type of person who was designated for calling the names of the gods. This person was called a theologian. He would call specific names at specific times to invoke the influences of specific gods for specific purposes. In many respects this was the sum and substance of what religion involved for the Greeks. Even in the secular world, names have power. In previous times, people wouldn't give out their name very easily. Nowadays this is also true, but names have been replaced in the United States with Social Security Numbers. No one gives out his or her Social Security Number very easily. Why? Because you can be controlled by those who know it. If someone knows your Social Security Number, they can get find out everything about you. So, numbers have replaced names, but the principle is the same: By knowing the name of a person, you can know everything about him. This is what Caitanya Mahaprabhu taught with regard to the Holy Name of Krsna and Krsna Himself. The two, name and named, are one. Truly knowing His name, one knows Him. In the Jewish tradition the name of God is considered so sacred that you cannot utter it. In the Bible there is considerable emphasis on the name of Jesus. It is said that by his name you will be saved. Amongst the various saints in the fifteenth and sixteenth century in India there was a reaction to the so called smarta monopoly on salvation that mandated one must first take birth in a brahmana family and then accept sannyasa before one could attain salvation. There was a kind of a rebellion to this, with the idea behind it that God was more accessible to the people. The bhakti movements championed this. They voiced this with emphasis on God's name. Nanak, Kabir, and others placed great emphasis on the name of God as a means to salvation. They saw the names of God--Hari, Rama, Krsna--to be a means to attain the name-less status of Brahman. Nothing was more important to Kabir in terms of spiritual practice than the name of Rama. Guru Nanak emphasized sat-nama, and his scripture is filed with glorification of the names Rama and Krsna. Above all of these religious traditions we find Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's conception of the name of God. Caitanya Mahaprabhu was the most prominent advocate of bhakti and nama at the time. He made a dharma, a religion out of the name of God. His followers developed this idea in great detail, and thus we have a theology of the name, nama-dharma. The significance of this nama dharma and the ontological position of Krsna nama was revealed over time the devotees of Mahaprabhu churned their realization as to the significance of Mahaprabhu's decent. At first the nama was considered to be nama-avatara, the avatara of God in syllables. This insight was one in which it was considered that the syllables krs na were empowered (avesa) with the potency of God, making Krsna nama an avesa-avatara. But gradually this insight was surpassed by the realization that Krsna and His name were one and the same, bhinnatvan nama-naminoh, nama-naminoh abheda. How much further can we go in glorifying the position of the name of Krsna? If we exalt the name of God to the extent that we theologize and philosophize and demonstrate from scripture that the name of God is non-different from God, then how can we go any further than this? Rupa Goswami has gone even further. The Name and Named are non-different, but if we look more closely we find that there is also a difference. What is that difference? The Name is more merciful than the Named. There is no tradition that takes this universal principle about sound and name further than Gaudiya Vaisnavism, giving more deference to the Name than the Named. Kali-kale nama-rupe krsna-avatara. Sometimes we hear devotees say "Oh, Caitanya Mahaprabhu came five hundred years ago; Krsna came five thousand years ago. If only I was there then, how fortunate I would be!" But they have not understood Caitanya Mahaprabhu's teaching: nama prabhu is here now! And Krsna-nama has been given to us. If we take advantage and pay attention then what will our fortune be? Jayadeva Goswami said something wonderful. "Oh, hari-nama!" from a sadhu you enter my ears and heart, and as my tears pour down on the ground they soften the clay, so that others can know to follow my way!" So, hari-nama prabhu has an agenda. Nama prabhu, krsna-nama has an agenda of His own. It is said that we should not maintain material attachment while chanting. If we take the name of Krsna sincerely our material attachments will become apparent to us. As they become known, they should be retired. It is not easy to retire them, but they must be retired. Otherwise they will haunt us even in our next life. If we deal with them in this life, then in our next life spiritual culture will be much easier. We must meet our attachments head on. Not that we are shall to do battle with them trying to conquer them like a Zen Buddhist with a big head, or a big jnani, studying the Upanisad. No, not like that, but by crying helplessly while chanting the name of Krsna. The soul can awaken. It can do more than philosophize. And that awakening comes from good association. We know from sadhu sanga that Nama prabhu is the most merciful manifestation of Krsna. Therefore we shall put all of our hopes in Him. Without any pride in ourselves, but with great regard for Hari Nama crying like Jayadeva we should remember what Mahaprabhu has said trnad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna amanina manadena kirtaniyah sada harih This kind of chanting will be effective. This is nistha. When one sees no prospect in life, but this ... kirtaniyah sada harih, fixed, then tears will come. The Name will dance in the courtyard of our heart, and make the ground beneath your feet soft through the tears He brings to your eyes so that others can follow in your footprints. Through your tears he will guide others and make His agenda known. We are accustomed to making things part of our agenda, pulling them out of our pocket to support our mentally conceived cause. We should not try to do this with Sri Nama prabhu. We gather knowledge to further our agenda, but Krsna nama embodies a different kind of knowledge. It is of a different nature altogether. It has its own very high agenda, and our soul is on it. Mahaprabhu said srotam api upanisadam dure hari-kathamrta. The mantras of the Upanisads are very far from hari-katha. What can happen from saying "aham brahmasmi," "tat tvam asi"? What kind of change in our life can come from that? There will be some transformation, but that will not be as comprehensive that which hari-nama can bring about. By the grace of Hari Nama we can not only exit the world of birth and death, we can enter the world of ecstasy, kampasru pulakadayah. Mahaprabhu teaches that not only is the transformation resulting from Krsna-nama far reaching, but moreover there are no rules attached chanting the holy name of Krsna. So many rules are attached to the chanting Vedic mantras, but Krsna-nama is distributing Himself freely proportionate to our faith in Him, faith that He Himself has awakened. Rupa Goswami has described Caitanya Mahaprabhu walking to Puri holding a string with knots on it, counting on the knots as he loudly chants the Hare Krsna maha mantra, "hare krsna hare krsna krsna krsna hare hare hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare." This nama mantra is also mentioned in the Upanisads. iti sodasakam namnam kali-kalmasa-nasanam natah parataropayah sarva-vedesu drsyate hare krsna hare krsna krsna krsna hare hare hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare This arrangement of God's names is most efficacious for Kali-yuga. Sarva-vedesu drsyate, all the Vedas say this. So, we are stressing this. Let anyone chant this maha mantra, anywhere and under any circumstances. What is the secret behind this mantra? The Hare Krsna maha mantra speaks indirectly, secretly, of something very sweet. Hare Krsna Rama! Hare means Hari in the vocative. "Oh Hari, Oh Krsna, Oh Rama". But the Gaudiya sampradaya has analyzed this further, and they have concluded that Hare also means Hara, a name for Radha in the vocative. Indirectly the divine union of Radha and Krsna is the subject of this sambhoga mantra. In this mantra, the names Rama and Krsna are surrounded by Hare, Radha, on all sides. Krsna means Krsna, and Rama is another name for Krsna, Ramana. Radha is Hare, who steals away Krsna's mind. This hare krsna mantra is so pleasing to Krsna because it speaks not only of His dearmost, Sri Radha, but of Her power to subjugate Him. The name Hare announces this. When Krsna, the Supreme Godhead, hears us chant this He will say, "You know that about Me, that I am subjugated by Her influence? I am the Supreme God, yet She can turn me into a dancing madman! You know that She is My guru?" Krsna will want to silence if he hears us sing this secret mantra loudly us by taking us to his abode. Such is the glory of the Hare Krsna maha mantra and the precept of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. It speaks to us of the power in sound, of the divinity in God's name, and of love's power to conquer all. |
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Title: Re: Hare Krishna Post by damana on 14.04.2004 at 06:43:10 Meni je v spominu dobr ostal en harekrisnovc, ki je pozvonil na nasa vrata, da bi kaksen kseft naredil. Se pravi, da bi mi kaksno knjigo prodal. ------------------------------------- Ja, pa mi je zacel nekaj pridigat, da smo ljudje kot zivali itd., itd. Jest sem mu seveda oporekal, da slabo vedenje ljudi primerjati s zivalskim vedenjem je skrajno neprimerno, ker da izhaja iz nerazumevanja naravnih zakonov. On pa svoje, itd., itd. No sam imam dobre izkusnje z tem, sicer pa kakor naletis. Jaz sem imel slabe izkusnje z enim jehovcem, pa sem bil kar jezen. No potem pa sem srecal enega finega. Na vsakem drevesu so sladka in gnila jabolka:) No rajsi imam sladke:) |
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